Why Women Are Frustrated and Confused About Men and Dating

Updated on April 26, 2019
savvydating profile image

Yves mission is to help women attract positive relationships by establishing personal parameters and greater self-worth.

Many women are confused and frustrated about men and dating....and they don’t know why. Here is my take on this malaise: At one time, men were the hunters and women were the gatherers. On an intuitive level, this essence is still alive today. However, since the advent of the sixties sexual revolution, American cultural standards have shifted.

Men and women are exhibiting somewhat androgynous behavior. It is now becoming politically incorrect to make distinctions between men and women. Mind you, not everyone believes men and women are exactly the same, but some do. Thus, the distinctions between the sexes are blurred. America's sexual revolution has created confusion about the relational roles between males and females.

Consequently, there is a whole lot of friction going on in the world of dating.

For example, in recent decades, women have begun hunting and gathering for the male, so to speak. Traditional romantic roles are going by the wayside. Society has inadvertently produced a new male prototype who has become adept at not putting in the time and effort to pursue a woman who truly interests him---the way men used to do.

Such men are convinced that it is perfectly fine for him to be "a gatherer," but the problem is, women are not natural "hunters." Nevertheless, because women are ever the adapters, they have chosen to compensate for the rise of the culturally androgynous male, aka, the "male gatherer." She has now assumed his previous role---that of protector and provider.

Who is the male gatherer? He is the male who claims to have embraced equality, but who actually doesn't respect women all that much. You've come across him. He is the guy who let's the women come to him. He does not pursue women. He lives solely for his own pleasure. His take is, "If women want equal rights, let her prove herself to me."

The 1960s Cultural Movement

The 1960s cultural movement had good intentions and some positive outcomes. However, the sexual revolution has failed us in the area of love, romance and commitment. Unfortunately, too many American men have morphed into something we did not foresee coming----the "gatherer," who is not adept at committing, pursuing or providing.

Herein lies the crux of the matter: Feminists had the right idea about wanting more equality, as in equal pay, but they got a little side-tracked by the free love thing. What they didn't realize is that most men are more than happy to accept the "No Strings Attached" philosophy of "free love." His philosophy goes something like this: "If we live together, I will enjoy the convenience of having a quasi-wife, but without any messy responsibilities or financial risk."

The male gatherer is into "low stress" relationships. In the event he should decide a woman with whom he is co-habitating doesn't meet his needs after all, he has no problem leaving. His reasons? "She was too much trouble. Who needs the drama?"

Meanwhile, he takes pleasure in having sex on a regular basis. Gratification with no commitment and no repercussions---that's his motto.

Yet sadly, women offer themselves up to the male gatherer, even though he has lost his instinct for honest romance and true commitment. Courting women isn't part of the gatherers' paradigm. He believes relationships should be easy and uncomplicated. Easy come, easy go. His expectations do not mirror the truth, which is that anything worth having requires time and effort to have.

Thus, having experienced disappointment in dating for the umpteenth time, many women carry around a perpetual cloud of frustration and anger. Nevertheless, not wanting to appear passive, women continue the hunt.

“We have to go after guys," they insist. "If we wait, nothing happens." "What choice do we have?"

Women who feel this way have a point, but their premise is wrong. She has another choice. She can let the man seek her. Here’s the thing. Women actually like having the man pursue her. His effort shows her he has a level of interest. She finds his pursuit of her hot and efficient - sort of like the engine of a BMW.

But the gatherer guy....well...he lacks drive. He's a Ford Pinto, or maybe a Volkswagen bus. The easy love thing works for him, but it isn't working for her. Apparently, easy love isn't so easy after all. Unwed mothers who struggle to raise their children without father's know this better than anyone. Unfortunately, the children get the raw end of the deal.

Percentage of Single Mothers Who are Hispanic
Single mothers who are White
Single Mothers Who are Black
Single Mothers Who are American Indian
Single Mothers Who are Asian & Pacific Islander
42%
25%
66%
52%
16%
Kids Count Data Center
Tired single mother.
Tired single mother.

What Needs to Happen

So what's a woman to do? First, she must learn to recognize the male gatherer. She must then stop throwing herself at his feet. Forever. Male gatherer guy does not have the inclination or the stamina for true romance women crave. He always leaves women feeling emotionally shortchanged. Why? Because he is, in fact, emotionally stunted. Chances are high that he didn't have a father to teach him the responsibilities of manhood.

In any event, any woman who truly wants an emotionally satisfying relationship with a man must first decide to place more value on her worth, her time, her career and her passions. In so doing, she changes her own perspective about the value of her life. Women must realize that meeting a great guy is icing on the cake. Icing is delicious; it can make a lovely difference---but it is still optional.

Women Have to Step Up Their Game as Well

She must learn to appreciate her womanhood and everything that being a woman entails, to include embracing her femininity. She doesn't have to become a man to be "equal." We are all equal by virtue of our humanity.

I knew a man who was a former hippie. He was highly educated, but the gatherer/hippie mentality never really left him. Anyway, he told me that he had lived in a commune where he really enjoyed his life. He talked about how fun it was to get naked and paint women's bodies. This, I gathered, was a type of foreplay. He went on to say that the only disagreeable aspect of commune life was that the women were, "Really messed up."

I guess so. Having multiple partners, not knowing who the father of your child is, and whether or not your lover(s) even remembered you from the day or night before would make any woman "a mess." The dirty little secret about the free love men of the 60's is that they were rampant chauvinists. They made love, smoked pot, quoted Nietzsche, Karl Marx, and existential poetry. They didn't do much else.

Meanwhile, the woman cooked, cleaned, scrabbled for food and even made herself available to other lovers at the request of her "main man." You know, equal love and all that. It's no wonder these women were so "messed up."

Meet the New Boss: Same As the Old Boss

The point is, male gatherers of the 1960's sexual revolution got used to the perks of free love. Not hard to comprehend. The problem we have today is that many men are content to view women in the same disrespectful manner as did the hippies back then. Unfortunately, women are still falling for gatherers. The problem however, is that when the going gets rough, because gatherer guy believes "she has too many expectations that don't match with my idea of fairness," it is all too easy for him to walk away. His feeling is, "I'll go my way and she can go her way."

To be sure, not all men act that badly, and I am not at all making that assertion. What I am saying is that our permissive society has created the "male gatherer" who does not understand why love and commitment actually matter. He thinks what matters is his freedom. After all, no one taught him how to respect women. His frustrated mom was probably working all of the time, and good ole' dad was MIA. Maybe his mom even lost the values she once had. Thus, the male gatherer had no positive role models to teach him what it means to become a grown-up. Consequently, he remains self-serving his entire life.

Common Reasons Why Men Don't Commit

  • Males can get sex without marriage more easily than in times past
  • Males can enjoy the benefits of having a wife by cohabiting rather than marrying
  • Men want to avoid divorce and its financial risks
  • Men fear that marriage will require too many changes and compromises
  • Males face few social pressures to marry

~Rutgers University's National Marriage Project

"Cohabiting men tend to be less committed to the relationship."

— The Negative Effects of Cohabitation, Linda J. Waite

Shifting Focus

So naturally, it behooves the woman to shift her focus toward worthwhile men who actually enjoy pursuing a woman, who exhibit patience and caring, and who are willing to ignore the trend that presupposes men and women are exactly the same in every way.

Men and women are not exactly the same. Our bodies are different, our brains are wired differently, we communicate differently, we have different mannerisms, and in some cases, we have unique needs. But the male gatherer would have you believe this cannot be true, as that would not be fair or equal for him.

Long story short, women must become adept at letting the male gatherer go. In other words, she must learn to pare down the dating field. The smart woman values herself far too much to waste her time on a man who treats her as if she is worthless.

Finally, women must learn to become responsible for all the bad romantic choices she has made. She absolutely must take personal responsibility for her poor decisions; only then will she be able to turn her life around and thus begin to let go of the anger and frustration she had carried before. She will now be in a position to proactively guide her dating life in a manner that will finally allow her to experience true love and romance---the kind that has purpose, meaning, and staying power.

Confidence is sexy!
Confidence is sexy!

The smart woman does not play hard to get---she is hard to get. Let me explain. Playing hard to get suggests that a woman feigns disinterest in a man to whom she is attracted. Being hard to get has to do with the psyche of a woman who is selective about the kind of men she chooses to date in the first place.

Once a woman has determined she is interested in someone, she is free to capture his attention. However, she does this with care. She does not rush into a situation without first finding out what she is getting into. She learns to make better choices, always with long term consequences in mind. She becomes a more responsible and thoughtful woman.

A Word About Communication

Communication is a good thing, but some ladies mistakenly believe they must open up about every single thing that has ever happened to them "because that is only fair and honest." But the truth is, there is no reason for any woman or man to reveal everything about their feelings or their past relationships, in the beginning stages of dating.

We must open up at our own pace. In so doing, we are respecting our parameters and sense of privacy---and this is as it should be. A secure partner will respect your need to share your life stories at your own pace. In fact, no one really has to reveal anything that isn't relevant to the current situation. On the other hand, excessive secrecy in any individual is a red flag.

Dating: An Art

A woman who is thoroughly uncomplicated and too eager to please will not attract the love of a man who has the masculine fiber women crave. Her confidence as a woman, combined with her feminine spirit, is the magnet that consistently attracts truly good men her way. The woman who knows how to date well is very much at ease with her femininity. A worthwhile man will readily pursue a woman like her, but he is easily bored with a woman who does not provide him with any challenges whatsoever. A good man isn't looking for a doormat to walk over. The worthwhile man respects a woman who has backbone. Only gatherer's hate being challenged.

Positive dating also recognizes and appreciates the core differences between men and women. In truth, regardless of our cultural leanings, it's actually quite pleasurable to embrace the distinctions between male and female, rather than constantly fighting against them or, worse yet, attempting to act like the opposite gender. Masculine and feminine traits actually complement one another quite nicely---sort of like two pieces of a puzzle.

From now on, let the male gatherer do whatever he wants to do, just so long as he isn't doing it with you. Your responsibility as a woman is to turn your attention toward the man who shows you that he cares---through his actions. Listen to your woman's heart and mind. Only then will you be assured of love that will stand the test of time.

Truly.....Yves

Questions & Answers

  • Why are most women nowadays very high maintenance, independent, selfish, spoiled, greedy, picky, think they're all that, narcissists, gold diggers, and very money hungry as well, when they were never like this at all in the old days?

    My advice to you is to stop watching trash TV and to stop listening to the advice of men's forums that denigrate all women. Reality television is in the business of making rating thru sensationalism. Maury Povich and Jerry Springer began these trends. To this day, they are popular with college (frat) boys as well as uneducated young men and women. Do you really want to be associated with trash like that? As for men's forums, they feed off of confused young boys or older divorced men who are bitter and who have chosen to blame all women for their problems instead of taking responsibility for their half of the problem.

    Anyway, my point is that the women you describe are not the majority. However, I will say that I am not in agreement with the philosophy of hardliner feminists. I do not think they have helped the cause of men or women.

    I would encourage you to seek more education so that you might gain a broader view of women's issues.

    For the record, global estimates published by WHO indicate that "about 1 in 3 women worldwide have experienced either physical and/or sexual intimate partner violence in their lifetime." I wish these women would have learned to be "picky." Maybe you should think about that the next time you make broad assumptions about all women.

  • Why were most women in the past real ladies and very easy to meet compared to the women of today that are just so very horrible to meet?

    Since the 1970s, some women have decided to become more like men, and not necessarily in a good way. That is not to say that all men and women are "horrible" today. But to answer your question: Back in the day, men were required to have manners, as were women. Society had strong expectations regarding courtship. That view has changed dramatically. Just know that many women feel just as frustrated about dating as you do. Both sexes are failing to live up to the high standards we had in the past (in many cases), but by no means are all individuals impolite.

  • Why is MGTOW a very smart way to go for so many of us single men?

    Your question presupposes that MGTOW IS a smart way to go. Thus, your starting point is flawed. The question should be, "Is MGTOW a smart way to go? I would say that in 97% of cases or more, MGTOW is definitely not a smart way to go, especially for men who have never married, had children or even dated much. Followers of the movement consider it a panacea for their bitterness. But in fact, most followers fail to recognize their underlying problems, which generally have to do with insecurity and a fear of rejection.

    So along comes MGTOW, which gives you permission to forgo having to grow up and do some self-reflection and instead spend your time having sex by yourself in front of your computer. What a pathetic way to live one's life. MGTOW, in nearly all cases, is not a smart philosophy. In the end, it is destructive because once a male is hooked on internet sex, he finds that he is physically and mentally unable to have a relationship with a live woman. He then becomes more self-loathing than he was before. However, he directs all of his anger toward women.

  • What does it mean to pursue a woman?

    Unfortunately, the word "pursue" may have negative connotations in today's world. One definition of pursue in reference to a person is "to continue or proceed along (a path or route)." In my article, I reference the type of man (not all men) who allow the woman to pursue him. In essence, he does nothing at all to participate in dating. He lets the woman come to him; he uses her and when he's done with her, he switches over to the next woman who has pursued him.

    Because he has no skin in the game, nothing really matters to him. He's like the guy at the bus stop, waiting for the next bus to come along. He'll hop on and off at will, but has no attachment either way. But if he had taken the time to pursue her along a respectful path, he would then feel more invested in the relationship. He would then be treating the woman as a person with value rather than a temporary vehicle for his convenience. He would have pursued her properly.

  • Why is MGTOW growing at such a rapid pace today?

    The reason young men turn to MGTOW is because of 1) Depression; 2) Social isolation and the feeling that they are unable to participate in romantic relationships, usually due to shyness or insecurity; 3) Fear of rejection and in turn, acceptance from a community of men who offer camaraderie.

    But, unfortunately, the camaraderie comes with a price. If you do not agree with their precepts (that all women are whores) then you will be shamed by them. And so out of fear, young men tow the line until they become even more depressed and finally find a way out. (Sometimes they never find a way out, having swallowed the anti-woman koolaid and secondly, because they have developed a serious addiction to porn, in which case it becomes impossible for them to have any kind of relationship with a woman even if they wanted one. So what these men really need is good medical care and an understanding therapist, not MGTOW.

    I do not know how rapidly MGTOW is growing, but they have developed a presence due to their online activity. The important thing for you to know is that not all men feel as you are currently feeling and not all women are as MGTOW would have you believe. The world has never been that black and white and it will never be. Their version of the world is skewed and based upon hate. I hope you will discover the truth about love and life before it is too late.

© 2012 Yves

Comments

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  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    5 days ago

    Lol. That's hilarious. Well...now we know what to do. Save up for the boat. The poor dears need a man cave and we women need a break. It's a win-win! Hahaha!

    Nice to see you, Dale. Thanks for the tip.;)

  • GetitScene profile image

    Dale Anderson 

    5 days ago from The High Seas

    To be fair, we men are tricky beasts to wrangle so I don't envy women's position of having to deal with us. However, men do become a lot easier to handle when their wife lets them have a boat. Men with boats are generally pretty happy fellows and easy to manage.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    3 weeks ago

    Do some research. That is not something I had "felt." The point is that Incels are angry. They hate women, but any vulnerable person can be a victim of their rage. Why do you think they celebrate mass shootings? Are all of those victims women?

  • profile image

    James168 

    4 weeks ago

    Incels attack homeless men and old ladies? Where did you get that statistic....you can't just make stuff up because that is how you feel.....

  • profile image

    malcolm wright 

    4 weeks ago

    my post is for the women who never pursue and take a chance at being rejected but experts at telling guys how they should handle rejetion

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    4 weeks ago

    Except that the women I am speaking of in this article always pursue men and always get the raw end of the deal... and there is a reason for that.

    Apparently, you have experienced rejection, just like the women I have addressed. That is a whole different matter. And yes, rejection is an unpleasant experience. The more one is intimately involved, the greater the pain. For those who experience pain when they hardly know the person, there are larger issues that need to be addressed.

  • profile image

    malcolm wright 

    4 weeks ago

    The real reason women don't pursue men is because its ok for them to reject men but they dont want to feel the pain of being rejected,plain and simple

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    6 weeks ago

    Qbraun....You are correct in stating that the majority of men I have referred to are Incels. It is also correct that Incels glorify violence against women and that they celebrate mass shootings of any kind.

    I agree that, due to their insecurity, they have a difficult time getting a girlfriend. Consequently, they turn to a community which offers the "black pill." However, these men only become more miserable. Not all are violent, but some are indeed very much so. Some will become mass shooters. Others find pleasure in beating a homeless man or attacking a helpless old lady. They are angry and cowardly.

    As for MGTOW, many of them have lost money due to divorce. And yes, they despise the court system, nor are they happy with women, in general.

    I could list all of the statistics that women have suffered over the years at the hands of men as well. But I won't do that.

    We have to find a way to become more mature as adults. Blaming everyone else, the system, and changing times will do us no good.

    It is possible to be happy. Some people may be better off single. If that is the case, more power to them. But there should be no violence against one another, needless to say.

  • profile image

    Qbraun 

    6 weeks ago

    I am seeing MGTOW thrown around here. It's not some strange philosophy that deludes men to thinkin women are bad. Far from contrary. Women are perfect. The issue MGTOW is that we now live in a gynocentric world that promotes feminism at the expense of men. This is most expressed in the family courts, but in many other areas as well.

    But it is also expressed in social shaming of men who take issue of women using the government and law enforcement to attack men with false allegations used to negate regret sex with a rape charge, have an ex-boyfriend thrown in jail with either a rape charge or assault. And now the silver bullet divorce strategy of calling CPS weeks before the trail date to charge sexual abuse of the children to get the upper-hand negotiations of divorce. All of these charges if proven as purjury has little to no consequence to the woman. And some women don't even call the police but turn to social media to name their attackers... It's MeToo on steroids.

    The real MGTOW are guys who were seriously burned by women. Many have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars and living out of their cars, and told they get what they deserve. Most guys are descent hardworking men who became boring to their wives. MGTOW are about educating others about true female nature. Much of what is not taught by non-existent fathers or weak fathers at best, who are now at the mercy of their wives. These are the red pills.

    The type of guy you all are describing is the Incel. He is numerous now and inspired by the MGTOW. Many Incel call themselves MGTOW, but can be easily spotted with their highly misogyist outburst. A MGTOW guy would be with a woman if he felt safe. He is now apart of a group that has about four decades of experience and observation. He knows the law and courts can destroy him instantly and avoids most if not all romantic of sexual relationships out of fear. He is mad with the system. He is mad with the laws that effects his life. Makes him a slave of sorts. When a man goes his own way, it's for his own survival.

    Incels on the other hand are mad at women. They want to see bad things happen to them. From a MGTOW's advantage point Incels are the powder keg to eventually change. Therefore, MGTOW are willing to be open to Incels, with our red pills, as more and more guys get the bum deal on women, relationships and sex, their anger and rage to eventual cause social breakdown and maybe even collapse to bring about a new era where men are on a more level playing field. The Incels are essentially being weaponized.

    And to be honest it's not the MGTOW who are weaponizing these poor souls but rather modern dating and moreover online dating. Incels are furious that they cannot get a single date or even a girlfriend with all their efforts. And some have spent thousands to up their game. The easy sex all you women talk about is simply not there for them. There is all of this frustration and realization that there is no future for them. They spiral into a depression and some go on to be mass shooters. If you saw some of their rants, emotional outburst, their nihilism and profound shame, you would probably be scared to leave your home. And to think they are estimated to out number MGTOW more than five to one. Why does either group exists? Could it be all from a hoax or conspiracy theory? Maybe what these guys are experiencing is not real. Maybe women can shame them more being lacking somehow. Supply and demand. Action and reaction. Real change cannot come without sacrifice. Maybe all of this is just prose and campfire tale...

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    8 weeks ago

    zinnanti......Fascinating paragraph....."There is no mating. There is no harvesting. You can eat, entertain youself and even have sex without ever having to be inconvenienced with leaving your abode."

    You have pinpointed, quite elegantly, why so many young men such as our friend J0j0331, are so very lost and disillusioned. He will not learn anything like that from Reddit forums.

    We all need one another and inconveniencing ourselves for a higher good is always worth the effort.

  • profile image

    zinnanti 

    8 weeks ago

    Hello Again,

    I think those who have vision to write have a civic duty to do so. So, I look forward to reading your work. I put too many demands on myself and I'm exhausted when it comes time to write.

    As far as dialogue - whether it be a discussion such as this, politics, race, etc. - the tenor of incivility is deafening. Everything is "blood in the water" as if clinging to one's position is some pathway to immortality. But, we live in an over-crowded, over-stressed world and I think, at times, piercing the banality of that existence by force is all people have. The high pitch of wickedness has really robbed us of our civility.

    I don't get MGTOW. Partnership is about protecting and providing for and with your partner.

    There's tangential relevance to something that occurred to me some time ago when I was contemplating the forces of altruism and our social bonds as herd animals.

    I think the "blood in the water" approach is part and parcel with the death of shame. And, if you think about it, shame is really a survival instinct. See, the feeling of shame was (note I'm using the past tense) that little tug that reminded us not to get kicked out of the herd. We needed the herd - or the tribe, ir commune, or gang or whatever - for the purposes of survival. We depended on each other.

    Contemporary ethics and technology has made us so insular - and successful at being insular - that the herd is a thing of the past. There is no hunting. There is no mating. There is no harvesting. You can eat, entertain youself and even have sex without ever having to be inconvenienced with leaving your abode.

    The herd is a thing of the past - as is shame. There is no longer the need for that little tug of reminder to not be excluded. Our emotional evolution, shaped by the modern world, has killed it off.

    So, not only does it alter the communication between people, it alters the context in which relationships exist. There is no mooring in our morals. So, we objectify. We forge our expectations from the shit we see in media. We force ourselves down the other's throat for the sake of perhaps having a morsel of immortality.

    The context of the problem is far greater than women and men (or women versus men). More deeply, it appears to arise from a loss of identity of self.

    After all, there is no herd by which to measure.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    8 weeks ago

    Hello zinnanti,

    Jojo331 is one of many men who have come to this site to express, however inelegantly, their distress, anger and confusion toward and about women.

    These young guys (and some not young) lean toward the Red Pill philosophy advocated by MGTOW. I am not a psychologist; therefore, I believe it best not to over-engage. However, I am not at all fearful.

    But, I am concerned and alarmed for today's society. Perhaps in sitting down and writing a new article, I can do my very small part in addressing the issue of contemporary male vs. female issues in a more significant way.

    Feel free to share your reflections. And thank you for your restraint. Good lawyers are good at that.;)

  • profile image

    zinnanti 

    8 weeks ago

    Women don't hate men. I think men and women hate the contemporary situation. On the other hand, J0j0331, your comments are fairly terse. Makes someone feel like they could get knocked around. Dialogue takes restraint.

  • profile image

    J0j0331 

    2 months ago

    I got peace your problem is you can't accept a mans opinion. If he does have an opinion all of the sudden he's got a problem typical female behavior.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    2 months ago

    I don't lose sleep over men who "don't play the game." I hope you will find peace of mind one day, J0j0331.

  • profile image

    J0j0331 

    2 months ago

    It is not a hate group, your is statement is where you're trying shame the philosophy like every other woman. Again, you ignore the fact I stated that FEMINISM is an ideology funded by the Rockefeller family. You don't like the fact that men are not playing the game anymore and they shouldn't, men don't owe women anything. Men are going to be men and that is the way it's going to be and it's not going to be what you think is best for us, woman.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    2 months ago

    Well stated, zinnanti. And isn't it ironic that political correctness, which purports to be so inclusive and tolerant, is anything but that.

    Your comments are quite interesting, I must say.

  • profile image

    zinnanti 

    2 months ago

    Thanks for your response. :)

    I think one of the things people suffer from is what I would call "regional toxicity."

    What do I mean by that? Well, for example, I live in the greater Los Angeles area. I have never known a place to be so crowded and with people so alone.

    Not only do we deal with great impact as to dating and gender focused trends, but clearly entrenched stereotypes with respect to our standards. We are "emotionally transient" by refusing to "put down roots," so to speak. There's always a better deal out there, right?

    Men are objectified as much as women. I think we're all familiar with the objectification of women; looks, sex appeal, etc. As a guy, on the other hand, I better be a good earner, have the right looks and so on. Neither sex has a monopoly on this aspect of things.

    We humans, ultimately being herd animals - thanks largely to technology - have fostered such insularity that perhaps much of self-identification is the product of little more than just pure confusion. There is a loss of self in such pervasive insularity. It is wholly counter to our fundamental nature and needs and we have lost sight that our "self" goes well beyond the four corners of our being. In relationships we all have roles to fulfill - like it or not.

    It comes down to respect, acknowledgment, growth and the freedom to grow. It is the lack - or fear of the lack - of those things that gives way to the rugged individualism of controlling masculinity or hyper feminism. In the end, the only foe we have is that insecurity within ourselves.

    This is how we have globally reacted to the loss of community. Rather than sharing our experiences and issues, learning to tolerate some social discomfort and exercising graciousness when it's less than easy, our insular and emotionally transient world demands perfect politically correct linguistic equilibrium as the only acceptable dialogue for the vacuum we find ourselves confined to.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    2 months ago

    Hello zinannti…. Thank you for giving us such good examples of problematic situations you’ve encountered with women. I hear what you're saying, and I do sympathize, believe it or not. (lol) I have overheard women making the sort of comments you describe; it drives crazy. My thought is always, "Girlfriend, how clueless can you be? The guy is trying to be nice. Get over yourself.” (Big sigh)

    I don’t know what to tell you except that if a woman gives off a hardline feminist vibe, it’s probably best to walk the other way, as quickly as possible. I say the same thing to women about men who act badly, obviously. The good news is that some women (such as myself and many ladies I’ve met) actually appreciate a gentleman, and in fact, insist upon being treated like the ladies we are…..and we’re not even offended if a man says something nice about our desire to learn self-defense. Imagine THAT???

    But once a man gets a bit older, I do understand how he may be less interested in dating. However, regardless of the “age” we live in, the old saying still applies, whether we are male or female…..”Sometimes we have to kiss a lot of frogs before….

    You know the rest. Thanks for writing in.

  • profile image

    zinnanti 

    2 months ago

    This is a good and insightful article. I'm curious about the dialogue on the issue because I have completely lost interest in dating due to these issues.

    I'm a 52 year old guy who is a self-employed attorney in the greater Los Angeles region; married twice (once very young and the second later in life), with the latter leaving me as the single parent to our daughter.

    A true relationship is about commitment to partnership. It doesn't necessarily rest upon "male" or "female." But, given the political winds, that's where the dialogue is taken. Rather, in a partnership, when it's time to be a hunter - be a hunter. When it's time to be a gatherer - be a gatherer; all for the sake of the partnership. Creating divisions over the trivialities of the flesh - and constantly putting each other on trial - are a recipe for a failed relationship.

    Culturally, I grew up in a time where the proper thing to do was to hold the door, push in the chair, get the car door, bring flowers to make things special. Now, I am informed that all such things are an assault on the individuality of the woman. It is a direct affront to her ability to care for her needs; a testament to presumed weakness.

    In my martial arts classes (which I do for fitness . . . . not to be hyper-masculine, lol) I once stated that it was good to see women engaging in self-defense. That did not garner a well received reaction as I was "mansplaining" and belittling those around me. (Though that comment came from my experience as a criminal defense attorney where I dealt with clients who had savagely beaten, slashed, bound, humiliated their partners - who nonetheless came to the perp's defense. If they only knew the things I have seen.)

    So, no more "mansplaining."

    I think a good number of men are not meeting the right women, in part, because they've just stopped looking. Not to make this about me, but, I'm tired of the chess game with all of the collateral issues. Relationships are hard enough without wondering if your partner is going to be jilted by a comment in a moment of intimacy, or whether you're off on the wrong tangent in offense of individuality or, God forbid, have something come back to haunt you where what seemed to be consent really wasn't consent.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    2 months ago

    ChrisG34.....I don't know you personally, but it does sound as if you try too hard or perhaps come off an anxious in that you use the word "struggle."

    All you have to do is dial it back a few notches. Put yourself in their shoes. Would you want someone who seems overly anxious around you all the time?

    Your average person, male or female, needs some space. Otherwise the needy/struggling person makes them feel claustrophobic. And yes, such people do come off as strange.

    Somehow you need to find a way to be more relaxed around women. Once you do that, you'll be able to have a girlfriend. I've said this before to a few men, but there is nothing wrong with getting some professional counseling to help you to gain some perspective. The good news is that there is hope, unless you start blaming women for everything. If you do that, you'll go down a rabbit hole from which you may never be able to return.

    Good luck to you and please try to relax!

  • profile image

    ChrisG34 

    2 months ago

    But that's the thing, women reject so many men just because they seem too keen and because of this are unable to see the true value of many men. It depends on the nature of why women reject men that seem to keen. Is it because the women feels that the man is trying so hard because really he is looking for something else (like sex) instead of a serious commitment? Or is a women not interested in men that appear too keen because it makes them look valueless because they are not popular with other women? So therefor if they struggle to find a girlfriend, there is this assumption that there must be something wrong with them. If it's the latter, then my respect towards women has gone down the drain.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    2 months ago

    Hello ChrisG34.....My understanding is that women in Australia are particularly sensitive to the issue of sexism and that Australia is likely dealing with a misogyny problem, both in film, television, the workplace and in dating. But I don't live there, so I am speculating.

    If women are not willing to go out with you after two dates, then something is wrong. Maybe you go over-board with the compliments. Perhaps you come off as insincere or desperate. Honestly, I can't say.

    I do know that the documentary, The Red Pill, was banned in some parts of Australia, so that tells me that Australia may have bad behavior issues it needs to resolve. I do hear that television there has quite a lot of full frontal nudity....lots of raunchy stuff, and that's not okay. I imagine women are finally waking up to this fact and rebelling against it.

    As things stand, you might be better off finding a woman somewhere else, but wherever you find her, you still have to treat a woman like a lady, if indeed she is a lady herself. Good luck to you!

  • profile image

    ChrisG34 

    2 months ago

    Just for the record from this article, i'd like to share my life. I'm a 34 year old single Australian male professional well paid software engineer. (Earning in the top 10% in my city). I am 175cm tall, not obese. My weekends consist 80% of my time in the afternoon on a saturday of approaching approximately 20 women, complementing them, telling them they are beautiful etc, asking questions about themselves and getting their phone numbers for a coffee date. So far, I have been single my whole life. I have been on many dates (probably about 100 in my life), but every women has stopped responding back to my messages after date 2. 20% of my free time, I work on my own business. The reason i'm working on my own business is so that I can live overseas in another country where i've known to have better luck. I think the problem is is that women's standards have risen over the years.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    4 months ago

    Thank you EmperRose....I honestly wish you the same on all counts. For the record, I do not think we disagree on everything. Be well. I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

  • profile image

    EmperRose 

    4 months ago

    I'm fairly sure she was quoting a study done by other people in that article, but I don't have a chance to go back and read it right now. I apologize if I came off like I was accusing you of anything by the way, that wasn't my intention. I was just looking at how we tend to take in information, and I do respect that you're willing to look at other viewpoints. Really, *everyone* should do that. It's a huge part of our growing problem with people living in information bubbles. Well, that and algorithms employed by Google, Facebook, and Twitter that funnel info towards you based on where they think your interests/political views lie.... Yeah.

    Before I dip out of this convo... I feel the need to clarify something I brought up in my first comment, because when I look back at it I can see how it could very easily be misinterpreted. When I brought up our advances with artificial wombs and sperm, I was thinking about that in the context of people one day being able to have kids w/o a partner or surrogate if they wanted or needed. People who may want kids, but don't necessarily desire a relationship. Given I said that in the middle of an entirely different subject, it definitely looks like I was implying something else. That's my bad, I have a tendency to put down whatever is in my head when I'm invested in a convo w/o really laying out my point as clearly as I could. That's a bad habit I am trying to break :/

    Anyway, it was fun talking with you! While I may not agree with your conclusions, I really do respect you for being so willing to engage with people and hear them out. I hope nothing but health, happiness, and fortune comes to you and the people you care about. Good luck, and have a fantastic day!

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    4 months ago

    Not a problem, Ken. :)

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    4 months ago

    EmperRose....I will have to review your comments. If you were not talking about sex robots, then I should not have "attacked" you. As for the article you mentioned, I stand by my words. The author's article was excessively broad, and in the grand scheme of things, the content was rather useless. I did not see any "sources" for her claims. Furthermore, I have no idea how many peer reviewed articles she has written within academia, nor whether she had highs rating for said periodicals. These things matter to those who take the merits of higher learning seriously.

    Thank you for your reply.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    4 months ago

    Carribeancounter.....Your English is very good. I am pleased you found happiness with a woman from Venezuela....and that you have four beautiful children. I am sorry, too, that your mother was needlessly heartless. I do not believe that all women from North America are like your mother, but, of course, some people choose to be negative, and in the end, it comes back to haunt them.

    I've no doubt your father is, finally, a very happy man, thanks to you. Thank you for sharing your story.

  • Ken Burgess profile image

    Ken Burgess 

    4 months ago from Florida

    EmperRose,

    AI, its future, the state of the internet, micro technologies, is an excellent topic and one I would love to discuss further as to its implications on humanity, and how likely within 20 years we will all be connected directly to the 'cloud' as a collective intelligence.

    Perhaps you could write an article on the matter and we could discuss it further there. This is not the forum for it, as it is not really related to the topic of discussion.

    Apologies Yves, for addressing the issue with our newly joined member of Hubpages here. As EmperRose is very articulate, I felt this an excellent opportunity to suggest a topic for a first article. And couldn't let it pass.

  • profile image

    EmperRose 

    4 months ago

    I don't really agree with attacking a source rather than looking at the merits/sources of their claims, but if that's the logic we're using..... I'm really not trying to agitate you, but this very article isn't even attempting to address male and female relationships from a neutral unbiased standpoint, it's clearly just your worldview. But I didn't, and would not, say that you should be dismissed out of hand because of that. There's value in debating contrasting views and philosophical ideas. If we're saying that people we don't agree with are biased and therefore they shouldn't be listened to, the only conclusion is that the only viewpoints with any merit are the ones you (the general you) already agree with. I think that's the completely wrong path to take, and it's just a furthering of confirmation bias to the extreme.

    I wasn't talking about "sex robots" at all, I was talking about AI in general and what our social interactions may or may not be. But, sure. I'm more than happy to leave it be.

  • profile image

    Caribbeancounter 

    4 months ago

    Excuse me if my grammar isn't very good, French is my primary language and I never really learned how to write in English very well.

    I think this article fails to address some very significant factors. Primarily, due to diet and other chemicals, men's testosterone levels are not what they used to be. Soy, corn byproducts and steroids in meat products have significantly feminized men over the last three or four decades. There are also other biological factors that would make men far less interested in women than they were even a mere generation ago. It doesn't mean men are growing up to be less ambitious, it just means that their ambitions have less to do with family, dating, or even meeting women. Many men are actually quite happy giving that a skip. All those studies that were conducted ten or twenty years ago are hardly relevant anymore. The boys growing up today will be very different than their grandfathers biologically. A fair number will be quite content to play video games, go to massage parlors when the need strikes, and have low-stress jobs. The majority of them who find themselves like that will not be the stereotypical "angry MGTOW", they will be happy enough with their lives.

    Also, many men, like me, will have been raised by a single feminist mother. Not the kind, as you described, who was working hard while dad was MIA. She actively pushed my father out of our lives, barred me from seeing him, and used the court system to ruin him because she was interested in someone else. My father never missed a payment, but ended up living in a car in cold Quebec nights, in homeless shelters, and wherever he could. I saw how the court system blindly supported my mother and tortured my father, all at her behest. I see you don't take women like that into account in your article. I grew up in a house where all I ever heard was "men this - blah, men that - blech. It's a form of abuse. When I left to go live on the streets at 14, she'd get the cops to bring me back all the time.

    The system is set so that women get sympathy without responsibility and men get responsibilities without any sympathy. Men who can't support their children go to jail, women who can't support their children get housing from the government.

    At 18 I went to France and signed up for the Foreign legion (thanks to my mom and the police, the Canadian military was out of the question). I managed to pass the physical on my second attempt and served 2 five year terms in Africa, where I was surrounded by real men and learned respect for God, respect for the poor, and respect for cultures that are not awash in consumerism. I volunteered for every assignment where I could earn extra "danger pay". I built my physique, my belief in the Lord, very healthy lifestyle habits, and learned a trade. When I returned to Canada at 28, I had ten years worth of pay sitting in a bank, which I invested in 2 apartment buildings.

    I never dated because I wasn't looking to get a woman pregnant, nor was I looking to get married. I simply had a hard time respecting North American women who seem so petty and fragile compared to some of the women I had met in Africa who risked their lives to save children. In Canada a woman can be traumatized for twenty years because someone touched her bum in the 1990's. How can I respect that?

    However, and I wish most men would realize this, time is on our side. I always wanted a wife and kids, just not with a woman who was brought up in a feminist society. There is no way I wanted to go through what my dad did, living penniless in middle age, but more importantly, I did not want to have children who had to go through what I did when I was a child. I wanted to be a proper father and husband in a stable family, and I knew I could not get that with a western woman. Western women are too easily influenced by this degenerate culture. Therefore I did not date. I think there are many men like me who just opted out of the dating scene. I'll leave the "gatherers" to keep western women happy. Besides, who wants to date a woman who is unhappy and confused like most Canadian women are these days? The "40 year old virgin" jokes never bothered me.

    It has a happy ending though. I sold everything when I was 45, travelled to Venezuela where I met my wife, we moved to the Caribbean and bought a huge farm, and now we are expecting our fourth child. I look upon my wife and three children with such pride, especially when they are lined up like ducks in row to take our seats in church every Sunday. I could never have had anything like this with a Canadian wife. All men have to do is to abstain from smoking, abstain from alcohol, abstain from drugs of any kind, stay grounded by volunteering time to the real needy, work out 4 days a week, foster a relationship with the Lord, and they will be in great shape in their mid forties. Most Canadian women would balk at a 20+ year age difference, but fortunately most other cultures are more accepting of it. I think there are a lot of men like me these days, we no longer have an obligation to the feminist women who have been letting us know how little of an obligation they have towards us the last 40 or so years.

    My poor mom is all alone in a nursing home in Montreal. I send her a birthday card every year. She will, however, never meet my children. I built a little house on the farm for my dad though. He helps his grandchildren with their homework every day. I know it sounds horrible, but I can't forgive her.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    4 months ago

    The author of the study you site is Bella Paulo, PhD., who writes for Psychology Today, a biased publication. She also appears on CNN, a heavily biased network which has almost zero credibility. Some PhD's are honest and non-biased while others' are out to make a buck. But Paulo is honest about one thing. Older women are capable of doing well on their own.

    And seriously, enough with the AI sex robot talk already. It's creepy.

  • profile image

    EmperRose 

    4 months ago

    In the study I suggested to you, the one talking about older women being fine (No Partner, No Worries: New Study of Psychological Health), it addresses men as well -though they're not the focus there-. To be more specific it says:

    - For the men, having a romantic partner mattered more than it did for the women, but again, not exactly in the ways the authors predicted. The authors thought that the unpartnered single men would do worse than the single men who were dating on every measure, but that never happened. The men who were dating did not differ significantly from the unpartnered single men in their experiences of depression or stress or loneliness.

    - The cohabiting men were predicted to do less well than the married men, but that never happened, either. The married men were more likely to report frequent depressive symptoms. They were also slightly more likely to experience stress than the cohabiting men. Marriage was also no protection against loneliness, as married men were no less lonely than cohabiting men. Cohabiting men also did well in comparison to the dating or unpartnered men on two measures of well-being: They were less likely to report frequent depressive symptoms or loneliness.

    I'd like to take a look at the study you're talking about that suggests single men cannot be happy w/o religion, that sounds like an interesting read.

    This is exactly why the debate around general AI is truly fascinating to me! It's an entirely novel area of science and deep philosophical questions that can open up to us (if we're actually smart enough to create one). Gen AI *directly* challenges a domain we've held to ourselves thus far, reason and sentience. If we do manage to create one, it'd arguably be the most significant achievement in human history contending with the moon landings, the development of electricity, and the wielding of fire.

    To be clear, I didn't say they would be humans. I said they'd be intelligent, self aware, consciousness that *are not* simply executing pre-programmed responses. That's the whole idea of General AI. it *is* consciousness. It's just not one that came directly from nature. What does it actually mean to be human? Is it the series of chemical neurotransmitters in our brains that enable the emotions (most of us) feel? Our ability to think and reason abstractly? Our ability to create and build? Our shared experience? All of the above? Turns out we may have to actually answer that question one of these days. All I'm saying is, you cannot possibly ignore the very real chance a not insignificant number of people will develop connects with Gen AI constructs even if *you personally* would not want to.

    We are making much more progress on the physical side of thing thoughs, moving towards creating robotic bodies that are physically indistinguishable from humans is a much more attainable goal. Unlike general AI that's not a question of *if* we can do it, it's a question of whether or not we should. Personally, what do you think? Just as small note, speaking of "programming" you may want to look into neruoscientific research into voluntary action and consciousness. I don't mean that woo-woo pseudoscience crap, the actual research.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    4 months ago

    EmperRose.....I've no doubt that older women can live happily alone. You've not provided any studies about older men living joyfully alone unless the man is deeply religious. Men and women are quite different in this regard. And sorry, no reasonable person honestly believes that AI robots can replace a living, breathing, emotional, loving, compassionate human being, no matter how well they have been programmed. I repeat....they can never become human. To love a robot in a romantic sense is perverse. It is a highly unfortunate and pitiful way of getting around the need for an actual human connection. Jeffrey Dahmer had a deep sexual love for his mannequin. That didn't make him psychologically "healthy."

  • profile image

    EmperRose 

    4 months ago

    "It’s a fact that married men are happier than single men, that married men live longer, that married men are wealthier and that married men have better sex. The conclusions are irrefutable."

    I have to push back there, and I think you may at least agree that the data is incomplete. For one, people in marriages they're *happy* with may be happier than single people, sure. That doesn't account for the people in unhappy marriages (which is somewhere between 30% - 50% here in the US depending on what study you look at), or the varying shades between unhappy and happy. Nor does it account for the fact that people who are happier may be more likely to be married in the first place. I'm going to cut a bit out here, but I'll name my sources so you can look at the articles yourself. There are also the government/financial and religious motivators, but we don't have to get into that here.

    Article: Psychology Today - Are Married People Happier? Think Again (By Elyakim Kislev).

    - They do not address the issue of whether self-selection could be a factor affecting the relationship between marriage and quality of life. In other words, it could be that happy and healthy individuals with more earning power are more likely to marry, painting a different picture of the effects of marriage.

    - Based on a sample of 576 young men extracted from the 1977 wave of the Michigan Panel Survey of Income Dynamics, the authors show that marriage is not a direct contributor to earnings. Rather, the authors suggest that married men are selected into marriage by coming from a stronger economic background.

    - Another study addressing the selection-causation question is a 17-year longitudinal study conducted in Germany. Using data from the German Socio-Economic Panel, the researchers investigated the marriage patterns of individuals in relation to their levels of happiness. The results suggest that happier singles are indeed more likely to get married, and that the benefits of marriage are more pronounced among happier individuals. Moreover, other psychological and medical studies suggest genetic selection into divorce and marriage.

    - Even if there is such a causation effect, and even if selection mechanisms are only part of the factors affecting the positive outcomes observed among married couples, we still need to suspect other hidden variables. Such variables relate to the social exclusion and stigma experienced by singles, divorced, and widowed people that probably associate with numerous negative outcomes. The problem is that we do not have enough data on these discriminatory practices.

    You may also want to look at two of Bella DePaulo's articles, a psychologist who has specifically been looking at a lot of the assertions about marriage for a good bit now. "No Partner, No Worries: New Study of Psychological Health" looks at long-term happiness of older women. And "Will You Be Less Depressed If You Get Married?" specifically looks at depression/mental health and marriage.

    ------------dfafd--------------

    "He has paid for a device to do his bidding, but that device is devoid of feelings. It is a mere object. ---- or that a robot is even capable of understanding human emotions."

    I also have to push back firmly on this point. I honestly don't mean to be rude, but you're making some enormous assumptions that are definitely unanswered questions for the development of AI according to the researchers themselves. If we're talking about *general* AI, the whole point is that it's an actual complete consciousness with its own original ideas, thoughts, creativity, worldview, preferences, adaptation, everything. It wouldn't be running on pre-programmed (if this then that) responses.

    That doesn't automatically mean an AI would think and process things the same we do, because its mind wasn't formed by the evolutionary forces/baggage that created us. But that *also* doesn't necessarily mean it would be cold and unfeeling. It simply means we don't know: its thought process could be completely alien to ours, we may find a way to shape them more closely to us, they may not experience emotions as we understand them at all, we have no idea at all this point and there are a lot of contradicting schools of thought in this area. Nobody on Earth knows the answer to yet.

    I was admittedly coming from a place assuming we *can* create AI that will be compatible with us emotionally though. I wasn't talking about limited sex-dolls or psuedo AI, but actual thinking beings. When I talked about places of ethical concern I was talking about the idea of buying intelligent entities and al that, which is a fascinating convo on its own.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    4 months ago

    EmperRose.....Marriage rates are down by 8% since 1990, however, there has been a slight increase in marriages between college educated couples, while those with little education are marrying less. In some parts of the world, marriage rates remain steady, whereas in others, marriage is on the decline. One reason for low statistic rates has to do with the fact the couples all over the world are waiting longer to get married. Back in the day, numbers were higher because people married as early as age 18 (consequently, higher numbers to count). Now the median age has increased to age 28 for women and 35 (or so) for men. So, it’s a mixed bag. To state otherwise is inaccurate.

    Social scientists have studied marriage for years. Their conclusions are constant. It’s a fact that married men are happier than single men, that married men live longer, that married men are wealthier and that married men have better sex. The conclusions are irrefutable. The reason why married men do well is because he is involved in a reciprocal relationship that brings him satisfaction over the long run. Yes, he must make some sacrifices, but those sacrifices pay off with long term benefits.

    With AI robots, a human man forfeits a reciprocal relationship. His relationship with a robot is transactional. He has paid for a device to do his bidding, but that device is devoid of feelings. It is a mere object. We need human relationships in our lives. We do not do well without them. Having shared goals and mutual give-and-take is what gives humans happiness. As the saying goes, “No Man is an Island.” We need one another to survive. If that were not so, a human baby would be able to flourish without human interaction. Yet, it cannot. It must be loved by a human being or it will either die or be mentally impaired. The same goes for adults. We cannot pretend that we can ignore our vast and complicated human emotions, or that a robot is even capable of understanding human emotions. (This should go without saying) However, some individuals do form strong attachments to AI, but their affection is a one-way street. A romantic attachment to AI would ultimately lead to disillusion and loneliness. It is in no way a healthy substitute for real love and affection between human beings.

  • profile image

    idyll1c 

    4 months ago

    Par for the course, this article puts a disproportionate amount of responsibility on men, and blames women's problems on men/society, rather than addressing the Key Question that women need to start asking themselves: "What's so great about me? What do I bring to the table? What do I offer a man that he can't get elsewhere? What's in it for the man to pursue and assume traditional roles?"

    Until women start asking the Key Question, and doing a lot of personal work, they will remain frustrated and confused with men. And more men will be going MGTOW, as there is no longer any legitimate reason to put women on a pedestal, as this article does.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    4 months ago

    EmperRose.....I'll get back to you. Other interested parties are welcome to reply, within reason.

  • profile image

    EmperRose 

    4 months ago

    It does seem to me that the overall trend is towards relationships in general becoming more rare for our entire species.Marriage is becoming less common worldwide, people my generation (and those below us) are dating less/having less sex in multiple countries, and there's a pretty good chance single parents will become the norm. I'm not really pointing that out with any kind of agenda in mind, I'm just saying that's the reality of the world. Beyond romantic relationships specifically, people are spending less and less time doing social activities. It's not just young people, it's true for all age groups (at least here in the states).

    Honestly, I have no idea if any of that is even a bad thing. A lot of that is it caused by financial pain/increasing workloads which forces out time we may otherwise be investing in other pursuits, but I personally think *part* of this might also be a natural result of our advancement as a species. Bear with me, I just want to get your thoughts on a different viewpoint here.

    As our technology becomes more capable, we're more able to find entertainment and fulfillment that doesn't rely on other people. Given our technology is (hopefully) only going to keep improving, I would imagine that means our evolved compulsion to seek out others will fade as well. But I mean... even if we evolved as a social species, is it necessarily a detrimental thing in the long run that we may be moving in a new direction? There are issues there when it comes to our innate tribalism and all the issues that arise from that (racism, sexism, xenophobia, so on and so forth), but that's a different and more complex conversation.There's also a pair of wildcards coming down the pipeline that I rarely see discussed, but I'm certain they're going to have a pretty significant impact on the whole. AI and artificial births.

    There's a very good chance humans will wind up forming genuine emotional bonds with, or simply sleeping with, non-human entities in the not too distant future for the first time in our history as a species. Whether or not we ever attain general AI (as in HER, I Am Robot, etc), that's a likely outcome. I'm very much aware not everyone will be interested in that, and I know there will be all sorts of broader social/ethical questions around that, but it's still an avenue that is going to open up. And that aside, we're developing increasingly capable artificial wombs and artificial sperm. We're possibly going to be able to create new human lives without the human body being necessary at all. Again, a complex issue with multiple things to take into consideration there.

    All I'm saying is, humanity is changing in ways far more significant that we've seemed to take notice of. We just have options our ancestors could not have even imagined. But to ask a question of something you posed in the article... why exactly do love, personal relationships, sex, or even companionship matter at all? I am not asking that to be antagonistic, I'm just trying to take a different view here. Objectively, the only reason we even have any of those urges is because it was necessary to keep our species alive/increase the chance of offspring surviving. If there's a *very* real chance that will no longer be the case for our species... well, I don't think it's surprising to see that our we may adapt to that shift too. That may mean we find new ways to be happy that have nothing to do with other people at all. As you seemed to say yourself, other people are just optional right?

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    5 months ago

    Hello Makemyown.......Sounds like you're a "glass is half empty" kind of a guy. Some of your statistics are wrong. The male to female ratio of men to women is fairly equal by a difference of 3% or so, with more men on dating sites than women, About 20% of users find committed relationships online, but of those couples, only 3 to 7% get married.

    The best way to meet decent single people is through friends. That is also one way to avoid the trappings of online narcissism, where the men you have described view women as a piece of meat... though not all men are that bad. Anyway, most women do not go online for hook-ups. She can do that without a dating site, if she is so inclined. In general, the majority of women are not "so inclined."

    I've had ample men warn me that men are going to disappear from the dating scene altogether. It's almost as men such as yourself take glee in this warning. What people need to know is that much of media is not real in that it does not necessarily describe how the average person feels and behaves in actual life. Most of us don't act like TV women.

    My article is a plain and simple warning to women that not all guys have your best interests at heart, and that there is a way for her to recognize the difference between worthwhile men and men who are decent.

    And as I mentioned in the article, women need to step up their game as well. Dating needn't be a battle. It's supposed to be fun. I've written about this matter in another article.

    What I tell most people is this: "Look around you." Most people do not look like Eva Mendez or Ryan Gosling, yet they still manage to find a life partner in most cases. Most of us are really quite average in looks, but we may have quite a lot to offer in many other areas of our lives. That is the reality of life.

    So, if you've decided to view all women one way, that's your prerogative. You and I agree on one thing, however..... Feminine women attract more attention from males than women who act like men.

  • profile image

    Makemyown 

    5 months ago

    This article tends to validate women’s attraction to unattainable, or least, untamable men. I see you mention in a response that most men online are not worthy of dating. I agree. No one who uses online dating is worth a damn. Those men are either thirsty, or use it to fill in IRL gaps in their lucrative sex lives. A successful man online has 5 or more women in rotation for, as you say, easy access to sex. But those men are quite rare and will never, ever commit to a relationship until his well runs dry, or he starts to feel that biological need for a legacy.

    The women are on it for attention, are bots, are men in disguise, are sugar babies, or are delusional about their attractiveness to the tier of man they’re looking for. That mostly comes from the insanely high guy to girl ratio and the fact that even an unemployed, heavy-set mother of 3 can feel like an instagram model with the right pictures.

    As your article points out, femininity is attractive. Not higher education, being a CEO of a startup, being the toughest cross-fitter in the mud run, only the aura of being feminine. Feminine women are rarely rejected and often perused. Where on the internet, its a lot of women complaining that men are intimidated by “strong, independent women” because of “toxic masculinity” or some other narrative that takes the onus off of their own choices. Yeah, lots of woman want a Ryan Gosling. But you know who gets a Ryan Gosling? An Eva Mendez.

    If regular women continue to require higher and higher benchmarks for men, and men continue to be increasingly displaced by women, and weapons-free attacked hourly by the media and women’s fragile egos for existing—I’m afraid that men will simply stop playing. And I don’t mean in the neo-MGTOW version of leaving the party.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    5 months ago

    Hi Simon,

    Thank you for the clarification. I hear you. A negative "reputation" by association is enough to send shivers of dread up anybody's spine.

  • profile image

    Simon A Templar 

    5 months ago

    Dear Yves,

    Thank you for the thoughtful response, and clarification on MGTOW. I agree with you. Young men should experience relationships before writing them off.

    I am not responding to prolong our conversation, and take up your time. I would like to leave you with something to ponder....in response to your point about a “crazy girl” putting something on social media, and her account would not hold up in a legal situation.

    Truly innocent me are not worried about “legal” ramifications. Why would we? Of course this wouldn’t hold up in court. We are concerned about social ramifications regardless of innocence. It is the idea that “crazy girl” can post whatever she wants, and it is online for everyone to see who googles your name (I.E: employers, possibly partners who are researching you...everyone does this), and without knowing “crazy girl”, or you intimately...you are lumped in with truly guilty men. For example: joe Biden (I do not endorse him). His accusers have said (paraphrasing) he makes them feel uncomfortable, but they do not feel he did this maliciously and that it’s generational innocence. (End paraphrase). He is now branded “creepy joe”, which will be used against him during his presidential campaign.

    Ansari Aziz is another interesting example. For people today, men and women, we are not discussing these miscommunications privately. They go straight to social media first. Now these are high profile people that we know of because of their status. What about the ones we don’t?

    Innocent well intentioned men are not concerned about legal threats. We are concern about guilt by accusation on social media, and that it will never go away.

    Thank you for your time

    -Simon

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    5 months ago

    Hello Simon A. Templar,

    An interesting moniker...."The Saint." I like it. Thank you for your positive feedback and for your concern regarding my having encouraged some young men to get counseling. The reason I have done so, in some cases, is because I believe that many young men, who are socially awkward and who fear the rejection of women, are drawn to MGTOW because it provides them with a sense of belonging, wherein they suddenly feel empowered and justified to continue avoiding women. I compare the movement to a drug of sorts. It's rather addictive, but it's not good for you. The movement paints all women as reprehensible creatures who are out to destroy a man's life. What it doesn't tell young men is that their anxiety, depression, and belief in Catastrophic Expectations is what is hindering their lives, not the women they are being taught to despise.

    Also, they have fallen into the trap of Catastrophic Expectations, a fallacy, which assumes that "if something bad can happen, it will happen."

    Furthermore, in catastrophic thinking, one tends to fixate or ruminate on worst case scenarios. It's an unhealthy place to be. Since such a small percentage of women are out to ruin anyone's career for the sake of social media posts, I feel that some tweaking in this area might be in order in many cases. However, I am not a psychologist, which is why I sometimes tell young men that counseling might be of help to them.

    As for your decision not to risk a 2% (or less) chance that a #MeToo crazy girl might possibly ruin your career, I cannot speak to that. There is the very small possibility that something bad could happen, even if it is unlikely. But in most cases, I would think her social media presence would be damning to herself, (in a court of law) whereas yours is either non-existent or clean. But then, I'm not a lawyer.

    In your case, you've been married before and had another fairly long-term relationship. Currently, you are fulfilled in your career and in your hobbies. I believe there are some people who really can "take or leave" the whole dating thing, having already "been there, done that." I think that's perfectly fine. My fear for the MGTOW men is that due to their hatred and reliance on porn or hook-ups, their lives will certainly become even more depressed, and ultimately, rather depraved. And we all know that absolutely nothing good comes out of that. The mildest cast scenario is loneliness; the worst case scenario is violence or suicide.

    Who knows, Simon, maybe you'll move to a warm climate one day, settle down in one place, meet a nice lady in fifteen years or so, and enjoy a new kind of life. If not, that's okay, too. Just so long as you're happy, socializing, and giving back in some way.

    Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I wish you all happiness.

  • profile image

    Simon A Templar 

    5 months ago

    Dear Yves,

    I am not one to use social media, as I have never signed up for Facebook or Twitter, but felt compelled to write to you for two reasons.

    Firstly, this is the only article I have come across, that has been written by a woman, where the perspective has been more to center on such a sensitive click bait topic for many media outlets. I appreciated the use of data, and the omission of buzz words that are used to "trigger" (am I using that right?) divide among sexes. Frankly, I don't believe most of the people writing those articles actually believe it themselves, but they need clicks, and the only way to achieve that is by being outrageous. Pretty much like our politicians on both sides of the aisle.....the more outrageous and extreme....the press!

    The first reason leads to my second reason for writing you. I have a question, and after reading several of your articles and comment responses...I value your feedback as much as one can from what little I know of you.

    Before I ask, I want to clarify something. I do not live in my mothers basement. I am not a part of MGTOW. I am 38, single, work out everyday, well above 6 feet tall, and have a wonderful job where I have a more than comfortable income living in NYC. I have lived abroad in three countries, MBA, and both of my parents are together today, in which I was raised as my father as the bread winner and my mother the care-giver. The had me, by accident, at a very very young age, with nothing. I had a front row seat to what a man is in watching my father work two and three jobs to drag us out of poverty. My mother managed the money and took care of the home and me, lovingly. I was and am very lucky. I know how to grocery shop, clean, cook, do laundry, manage finances....and build a house from the ground up with the garage full of tools and tractor I own. I don't mean to drag on, but after reading some of the comments and responses, I wanted to give a basic outline of myself and not be thrown in with Mgtow stereotype

    I noticed in some of your responses, you seem to have a negative response to men who choose to remain single. I am not trying to put words in your mouth, but there was more than 2 or 3 responses below that essentially said you need therapy or you will be unhappy in life, if you take a path of wanting to live alone. Which perhaps for those people you are correct. I do find it rather disturbing, that if a woman decides to lead a single life, it is considered "empowering" or "brave". If men decide to do it, then he has social issues and is a loser, something must be clearly wrong with him. That seems to be the constant rhetoric I read in many places for the most part.

    I have been married, in my mid late 20's, in which she had an affair and I ended losing everything. I continued to date. Met many lovely women, and had one other long term relationship,that ended terribly for me as well sadly. No sleeping with other partners....she just decided she did t want it anymore or wanted to take a "break" to focus on her and her career.......after 3 years together, a home, pets, family get together's........all gone at the snap of her finger. She regretted immediately after we moved out of the beautiful apartment we had, and when life got hard. I refused to restart the relationship as I could never trust my feelings and give her my commitment again. And it's not fair for me and her to be in a relationship where the other is unable to do that.

    Now enter #metoo. I had front row seat to the marching and protest on 5th avenue. I have to say, dating is something else in NYC. Even making eye contact can lead to a social justice scene on the subway with the wome s phone in hand waiting for a moment to take viral and claim her position as #metoo as well. All it takes is a very young lady, or man, who is living in NYC...which has become a pressure cooker of extremism and emotion....to pull out their phone and with one tweet or Facebook post create a moment for the,selves to either garner likes, or clicks, or followers I guess.

    Here is my question: even if the percentage of false accusations of men are only 2-6% of all accusations, it is apparent to me that the damage it could cause me far outweighs the limited likelihood of it happening. All it would take is one tweet or Facebook post, which an be done in a instant under any emotion....and my career is dead. Everything I worked for, the time, reputation, experience...becomes deleted should I ever need a new job. As a hiring manager, we were instructed to do social media checks on applicants. And a tweet or Facebook post goes up, it's there forever, and there isn't en employer out there today who would risk hiring someone with an online accusation in today's climate. I am guilty by accusation. Given everything I prefaced.....why would I risk my career, and life, dating in such an environment? I am self sufficient, have no debt, travel 60% of the year, and have many things I am passionate about. I do truly enjoy being alone. I can take it or leave it with relationships to be honest, as I get so much social interaction from work. For me, the risks of dating today (especially in NYC) far outweigh any benefit I could receive. Sure, the climate could change, but we don't know that, so I am working off of what I see now.

    If you get a free moment, I would appreciate your feedback to my monologue above.

    Thank you,

    Simon

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    5 months ago

    Single33....The last time I heard, it was perfectly safe to say "Good Morning" to a woman. I've not come across any news reports wherein a man was murdered in the streets for doing so. People are still dating, getting married and having children every single day. You're just not one of them because you've chosen to find an excuse not to. You've swallowed the MGTOW propaganda whole.

    However, you don't have to live a life of loneliness. I fully realize that your friends online are telling you to swallow the Red Pill, but what they don't tell you is that one day you'll be 70 years old and so incredibly lonely, you'll feel like dying. You won't have any children to visit you on holidays or weekends or a wife to care for you when you're sick or in the hospital. You'll be in a nursing home or some dirty apartment. The porn will have destroyed your mind and your libido. You'll feel like the most miserable man in the world----all because you believed a lie---that being with a woman is too dangerous. That life is black and white.

    Instead of blaming your problems on women, get some counseling so that you can acquire some perspective before it's too late. You'll be glad you did.

  • profile image

    Single33 

    5 months ago

    Well is is just too very bad that the good old days are all gone now since many of us single men that really wanted to meet a good woman to settle down with, which it definitely would have been so much easier back then with no trouble at all. And many of us would have been married already with children as well. Most women were so much different back then since they were definitely real ladies, and the very complete opposite of today altogether too. Men can very easily strike up a very good conversation with a woman too in those days since they had very excellent manners, and a great personality as well. God forbid if you say good morning or hello to a woman now which unfortunately has become so very dangerous for most of us men very seriously looking for a relationship today. Most women really aren't nice to meet at all anymore since a real great majority of these women are feminist, and real men haters as well. So with this big change in the women today which is the very excellent reason why so many of us men are still single today as i speak.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    5 months ago

    James....The destruction of the family unit is the worst thing that has happened to Americans. You are correct in saying women are not happier, nor are young boys who don't have fathers to give them direction. I regret radical feminist like Linda Gordon who stated: “the nuclear family must be destroyed… Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process.”

    She got her wish and innocent children are paying the price. America needs a return to spirituality, but it might be too late given the radical objectives of the far left who speak often and loudly enough to drown out most Americans whose ideologies are actually in the center or more likely, right of center.

    Thank you for commenting.

  • James A Watkins profile image

    James A Watkins 

    5 months ago from Chicago

    Your article is wonderfully made. Thank you for it. It is needful.

    There were plenty of voices who, from the beginning, predicted that ‘sexual liberation’ would cause a long list of serious societal problems: promiscuity, sexually transmitted disease, divorce, illegitimacy, abandoned children, neglected children, neglect of family responsibility, juvenile delinquency, and an increase of mental disorders.

    The decline of a civilization, one might conclude.

    And the chief beneficiaries were supposed to be women, whose arrival at total sexual freedom was to raise them to a new state of bliss.

    Instead we see ‘the paradox of declining female happiness,’ meaning that the more sexually free women have become the less happy they are.

    It is obvious that our country has paid a terrible price, morally, socially, economically, physically, mentally, and spiritually. God told us before we did it that His sexual laws were in place for our benefit, not His benefit, and that breaking them brings severe consequences.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    5 months ago

    Branch.....Hubpage writers are a community of friends. As such, we address each other by our names. However, you are "outside" of the community.. As such, it is not necessary for you to address me by name (as you and I are not friends, nor are you an HP member). Frankly, I would have replied as you had if I had been given an ultimatum. So, point well taken.

    Anyway, you have made some interesting observations. When time permits, I intend to write about this matter in greater detail, particularly with regard to ways in which men and women are complementary. Needless to say, the equality issue will also be addressed.

  • profile image

    Branch T 

    5 months ago

    I don't care if you or anyone else addresses me by name or if you even address me at all. I intended my comments as just that--comments, not as a personal missive to you. As such, there was no disrespect intended in my omission of your name, and I find it a bit odd that you're so offended by it. In any case, I haven't accepted ultimatums since I moved out of my father's house 20 years ago, so you do as you see fit.

    I agree that there are a great many men in this world who need something bordering on a moral education, something they clearly didn't receive from the folks who raised them. I meet these sorts of repugnant people all the time. They're an inescapable part of life, the losers who send pictures of their genitalia to strangers.

    Dating profiles are one thing, but there has been a trend among women of rising expectations for potential mates. This trend has only increased as women have attained higher and more lucrative positions in business and government. What hasn't changed is the female desire to "marry up," the expectation that whoever they marry will be somehow better across the board than they are. That's unrealistic in many cases, and it's not at all in keeping with the notion of equality that so many women claim to seek.

    In any case, my real intent in all of this has been to shed some light on the other side of the coin, to argue that it's not just men who need to change with the times. I think women are actually somewhat more set in their expectations than men, given that they expect men to follow the old "courtship" code even though the rules have changed on everything else.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    5 months ago

    Branch....I gather you assume women consider 80% of men are not date-able on "a popular a website" (probably Match.com) due to his financial status. Without having seen the study, I can tell you right now that at least 80% of the men, if that, are absolutely not dateable on that website, but not due to financial status. In fact, on some websites, men are 5% dateable at best.

    Anyway, the reason these online guys are not dateable is because their profiles are crap. Their profiles focus on sex and their requirements for a partner, which also pertain to her physicality. So, the 80% excuse is not going to fly around here. Sorry, but that's just no reason....not even close.

    But I agree that boys should never be treated as unwelcome in society. Boys and girls need to understand just how well male and female complement one another....when we respect our differences as well as our similarities.

    Also, if you do not address me by my name in the future, do not expect a response. I gave you that much regard. I expect the same in return.

  • profile image

    Branch T 

    5 months ago

    Men aren't relying on porn and Craigslist hookups because they think it's going to make them happy. They do it because it's what they can get. They do it because most men are no longer considered even dateable by the majority of women.

    There's a now-infamous study that was conducted a few years back that showed that women considered 80% of guys on a popular dating website to be undateable. 80%. That's a huge number. As women are becoming more financially successful, they consider boyfriends and husbands to be less necessary in their lives. There's a direct correlation between women's financial success and their list of required traits in a mate, to the point that extremely successful women nearly price themselves out of the market altogether.

    The upshot of this is that I think very few people are being fulfilled in the modern dating marketplace. There are larger numbers of women competing for a shrinking pool of highly successful and attractive men. Meanwhile, most guys sit on the sidelines because they lack the financial means, or the physical bearing, or the charisma, or the basic confidence to be successful with girls. Most average young guys are today are treated as the detritus of society. I've seen the difference in how schools and corporations treat young men and women. Young women are mentored and encouraged to shoot for the top, while young men are watched like delinquents and mocked if they show the least bit of ambition. There's almost a sense that people need to squash any trace of confidence in boys lest they become egomonsters who are uncontrollable by society.

    This is the wellspring from which MGTOW arose. So many young men today feel like they aren't wanted anywhere, in government or corporations or college or in the dating market. So these young guys have done the only thing they have left to do, which is declare themselves independent agents who no longer seek belonging. It's the only way they have to salvage even a modicum of dignity or self-respect, and it happens in all groups that are shunned by the larger society.

    I agree with you about liberalism not being the entirety of existence. But I will add that liberals control huge swaths of the institutions that control the lives of young people. Schools, the media, colleges...all of them are controlled by liberals who are pushing a pro-female agenda. Boys are not being well-served by this, and that accounts for their higher suicide and lower college-enrollment rates.

    The bottom line is that there needs to be a recognition among girls and women of what is at stake in society if we continue to treat boys as unwelcome in society. There will be grave problems from millions of unmarried men who have been shunned by employers and mocked by women. And I know that your focus is on women and their issues in dating, but it would behoove them to understand why things have ended up as they are today. Upending the old order and leaving young men with no real role in society will eventually harm everyone.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    5 months ago

    Branch T..... Fair enough. Your points are valid. The key word is "liberal" groups in academia, the media and government. Half of America is not liberal, but it is true that 98% of the media and academia has infiltrated government and all of society, for that matter. Consequently, we are bombarded with the worst of what liberalism has to offer, which isn't much, when all is said and done.

    I am not a radical feminist. I believe men and women are complementary. In my article, I've pointed out one type of man, not all men. But I will say this: Any man who relies solely on hookups and porn to satisfy his sexuality will never be fulfilled in any meaningful way. Despite the changes we see in society, marriage is still a viable option for couples, whether it holds the "cachet" it once did or not.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    5 months ago

    David Webb.....It sounds like you've made up your mind about remaining single, but if you never try, you never get. If you look around you, most young people are dating and most people are married by their mid 30's or so. Most folks manage to get married, have children, and build a nice life. Why? Because they tried. They chose not to be afraid of what might happen. They didn't care about about some lame Gillette ad or that MGTOW claims that all women are out to destroy men's lives.

    No offence, but thinking that all is hopeless is no way to live. The reality is that most women have different ideas about what feminism means. Most women are not radical. I didn't like what happened to Kavanaugh either, but what happened to him is not the norm. And in the end, his accuser(s) didn't get away with anything.

    You can do what you like with your life, but MGTOW is a road to hell. No man is happy living alone forever. I'm just saying. You don't have to live alone. You can get some counseling and begin living life.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    5 months ago

    Branch T and David Webb. I hear your concerns and I will address them when time permits. Thank you for writing in.

  • profile image

    Branch T 

    5 months ago

    What you describe here fits neatly under the heading of "be careful what you wish for."

    Women and liberal groups have been pushing for years to empower women while emasculating men at the same time. They've run a focused campaign in academia, government, and the media to paint women as superior beings, smarter, more capable, and just flat better than men in every way. This can be seen plainly in movies and television programming in the way men are portrayed. Invariably, men are painted as feckless dopes, losers who need to be shown the way home by the much-wiser women who surround them.

    Academia continues to favor girls and young women with aid programs even though they succeed at greater rates than men and make up the vast majority of enrollees at colleges and universities. Nearly 60% of college students are women, yet they are still treated as a minority group, with all the attendant benefits. Colleges are still more prone to offer girls scholarships, targeted curricula, and special counseling services that are not available to boys. Yet boys are still painted as an impediment to a blissful college life for girls. The fake story about "rape culture" that was pushed in a Rolling Stone magazine piece a few years back shows just how far women and liberals have gone to paint men as villains. And then they have the temerity (read: stupidity) to wonder why boys aren't attending and graduating from college.

    The reality for women is, now that you've finally gotten what you wanted--female hegemony--you've found that you don't really want it all that much. You may enjoy many of your new perks, but you wonder why all the old perks women enjoyed in previous generations are no longer available to you. Yes, men used to ask women out much more than they do today, but that was in a time when women were not our competitors, when you weren't trying to destroy our careers to further your own. And there's no doubt that men were more prone to act as providers 30 years ago. But women told us in no uncertain terms they didn't need us, that they could take care of themselves, that men were no more than lifestyle accessories they could take or leave. We heard you loud and clear. So today, men shy away from traditional roles because we've been told we're not needed in them.

    If women want equality, then women need to embrace that they are going to be the primary earners in many families, just as men have been since time immemorial. Women also need to get with the fact that dating someone who makes less money is not "dating down." Women would cry foul if a man who married a low-earning wife called her a "bum" for not being able to raise her income to at least match his.

    Women also need to take greater efforts to understand what men want in relationships. We don't care how much you earn or what job you have, precisely because it will not benefit us. We care much more about a woman's physical attractiveness and her overall sociability. Physically attractive, sweet-natured women have their pick of men, even if they work in lowly paid careers.

    But more than anything, women need to embrace the fact that they are going to have to make greater efforts to prove themselves to men, just as men have had to prove ourselves to women. There are countless options in life for men to pursue. Sex is no longer that difficult to procure. One result of the increasing disposability of men is that we've come to accept that we may never get married, so we've learned to make do with arranged hookups and internet porn. A man who's made it to 30 without a serious relationship likely won't change that just to be married. Marriage no longer holds enough cachet to compel men to think such a risk is even worthwhile.

    There are other issues here, but it is a new world in dating and marriage, so women should not expect all the old constructs to endure. Men have had to adapt to the changing times, and there's no reason women should think themselves immune from this as well.

  • profile image

    David Webb 93 

    5 months ago

    "Traditional romantic roles are going by the wayside. Society has inadvertently produced a new male prototype who has become adept at not putting in the time and effort to pursue a woman who truly interests him---the way men used to do."

    “We have to go after guys," they insist. "If we wait, nothing happens." "What choice do we have?"

    Well gee, I wonder why men are no longer approaching / pursuing women? Maybe it is because we have heard of this whole #MeToo thing where every woman is trying to hop on the victim bandwagon.

    Maybe it is because of the whole Kavanaugh case where people was wanting to punish the man without evidence. All a woman has to do is make an accusation against a man and his life is ruined. And it's pretty much mob rule anymore, the group with the loudest screechers gets their way. Guilty until proven innocent is no longer relevant.

    And maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with the gillette commercial. Have you seen it? There is literally one scene where a guy is about to pursue a woman he finds attractive and another guy stops him saying "not cool dude". This is what young men and boys are being taught. And they feel like they are some sort of sexual predator for wanting to say "hi" to a girl or tell her she is pretty.

    You should read some of the arguments in defense of that damned gillette ad. People are saying "that guy was approaching a woman uninvited", "she was having a bad day", "the look on his face shows he was going to do more than talk to her".

    And then people wonder why guys are hesitant to approach women.

    "Women who feel this way have a point, but their premise is wrong. She has another choice. She can let the man seek her. Here’s the thing. Women actually like having the man pursue her. His effort shows her he has a level of interest. She finds his pursuit of her hot and efficient - sort of like the engine of a BMW."

    Now I am confused! According to the gillette ad I would think that a guy approaching a woman is considered harassment to say the least and that such "toxic" behavior would be unacceptable. I thought women would be disturbed to have some creep come up uninvited trying to talk to her. Or am I supposed to assume that if the guy has enough to offer, good looks and lots of money, then the woman might not mind if he approaches her "uninvited"?

    Women are not the only ones frustrated and confused. It is 1 AM here and I could rant on this subject until morning. But it will change nothing. I have never pursued a woman and I probably never will. Recent events, the way modern society has become, and a host of other reasons is why I am choosing a single life. I would rather that not be the case. But like other things, it isn't working out and this is just the way things are. Modern society seems to like the way things are so why bother.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    6 months ago

    J0j0331....In that MGTOW does not have a defined leader, it is more of a hate group than a cult. But some of the philosophies are cult-like.

  • profile image

    J0j0331 

    6 months ago

    MGTOW is not a cult, it's a philosophy. FEMINISM is a cult group funded by the Rockefeller designed to destroy relationships and tax women as well. You want to help relationships? Help women because all ever social media does is blame men for everything. A man will do whatever he wants without hurting anybody, if a woman doesn't like it she can keep on walking. A man to this day has to be the one approaching women not the other way around. When you become a man let me know until then you don't have a clue what's best for man.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    6 months ago

    Hi Ken.....While I still liken MGTOW to a cult that attracts disenfranchised young men who tend to be depressed or who have been repeatedly rejected by women due to lack of social skills, I do agree with you wholeheartedly that the messaging from media and especially universities, tends to be negative, especially towards "old white guys." Even Joe Biden went on an apology tour recently for being white. To me, that is pure stupidity and definitely sends the wrong message to some young white male out there watching television with his parents.

    The other day, I also watched as students from George Washington University complained about how offended they were that Washington had owned slaves, and that this is one more white man whose name does not deserve to be named after a university. More stupidity! So if you are talking about situations like that, then I concede your point. I just don't think MGTOW is born of these situations, per se. Yes, MGTOW has decided to make radical feminism their target, but even reasonable women do not think those women represent the majority of females well, if at all. Personally, I cannot relate to them in any way! The radical-vagina-hat wearing so-called feminists are as radical and angry as MGTOW. Unfortunately, many liberal professors, both male and female, are perfectly fine promoting anti-white founding fathers rhetoric. However, those "educators" are weak and the only thing they care about is their tenure and their amoral lifestyles.

    I will say that I have met one or two guys who identified as MGTOW and who were not hateful. One of them was actually kind, while another one just seemed sad. So maybe, just maybe, there are some who have not been radicalized and who do not necessarily believe all the hate rhetoric. Nevertheless, I wish there was a better group for those guys to identify with.

    Anyway, Ken, thanks for the clarification. Good to see you.

  • Ken Burgess profile image

    Ken Burgess 

    6 months ago from Florida

    Yves,

    Yes there are a lot of dirtbags out there, and you can find them on the internet in plenty I am sure.

    What I am referring to is the messaging going on mainstream from Hollywood, from our mainstream news sources, from what I like to consider the 'official social messaging system' ... schools, media, government.

    That is entirely different than individuals that may be spending their days hiding away in their mother's basement picking away at the keyboard and spreading their dissatisfaction with life everywhere they are allowed to post.

    And this is also different from ex-husbands who have been burned by the legal system. I am referring to the messaging that can be found in movies and tv. It is more and more often pointing the blame, or making the fool be a man. Kids see this and internalize it, and it will make for many confused, frustrated, and socially incompetent men in future generations.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    6 months ago

    Ken...I appreciate constructive criticism. Just know I derived some of my information from reddit (an online forum for men) Basically, they characterize all women as whores.

    Also know that I realize there are men who no longer wish to be married, having already "done that, been there." That's their perogative. However, they do not blame women for all the ills in society. They are still able to interact with women. They have women friends.

    If you look up MGTOW, you will find this definition:

    "They are called Men Going Their Own Way (or MGTOW, pronounced "mig-tow") and they have a serious problem with feminism. To them, the feminist movement has all but ruined our society, and it just doesn't make sense to participate in the dating game because women have been, in their eyes, programmed to ruin a man's life."

    Ken If you go to the reddit site, you will see what I am talking about. I would have to look into your assertion about comic books, cartoons and kids shows. I've not heard the "dominant theme" that white men are evil, but then, I'm not a man. I do know that MGTOW resents the changes that have occurred in society since the 1970's. Yet men were there at Woodstock insisting upon equality, and frankly, they loved free love back then. Now, that women are attaining equality, they're not so happy anymore. We're all experiencing growing pains.

    Given all of that, I do not agree with radical feminism that promotes late term abortion or the so called right to kill a baby after it is born. Those radical leftist, who are both male and female are out of their minds, and they are doing harm to all of society, not just men who are already insecure.

    Anyway, I think what you are saying is that men feel like they can no longer be men. Personally, I think they can, but today, they just have to learn to keep their hands to themselves and ask permission first. I work with a young lady who has a very nice boyfriend. But before she met him, she told me that young men on Tinder are constantly asking for naked pics and sending unwelcome and unasked for naked pics. She said she and her friends always put the guys in their place because it's disgusting that guys think that women want this crap. My point? It's hard for women too. It never stopped being hard.

    Another thing is that the plethora of violent porn out there is not teaching our young men (or any age man) out there anything good. We need more organizations that teach men about manhood so that they can grow character and confidence and thus, spend less time worrying about social media, comic books, and Liberal professors.

    I'm not dismissing your concerns, Ken. I'm just saying that that the issue is multi-faceted. Thanks for writing in.

  • Ken Burgess profile image

    Ken Burgess 

    6 months ago from Florida

    Yves,

    I believe you are painting the acronym MGTOW in a negative light when you answer the question why is MGTOW growing.

    It is more dynamic than that. I think much of it is because society is telling them they have no purpose, no role, they are not needed, and often times their opinion is not wanted.

    For those who make the mistake of tuning into the likes of CNN, MSNBC, and mainstream media in general, this is the message they are getting.

    It is becoming all encompassing and young men can't escape it, it is infecting comic books, cartoons, and kid shows more and more. Not to mention what goes on in Higher Education. The progressive mantra that men (in particular white men) are the source of most evils in the world, is becoming a dominant theme.

    This is not the delusional views of someone who is dysfunctional in the world and isolated, this is what I see in the world around me, and I'm as functional in the world as anyone I know.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    6 months ago

    Red Leader.....He doesn't walk away with nothing. He retains at least half of his assets, depending upon the divorce agreement. However, I do sympathize with anyone who has been cheated on, whether they be man or woman. Cheating is not okay.

    Thank you for stopping by.

  • profile image

    Red Leader 

    6 months ago

    Long story short, if a man puts, say, 25 years into a relationship, and even gives up the opportunity to stay home and raise children, work long hours in dangerous and awful but well-paying jobs to provide for his wife’s needs, sends his entire paycheck home to be spent at his wife’s discretion, then he should get he should get compensation for 25 years of “lost time and opportunities”, as feminists would say. He has given his life, his love and his most productive years for a woman who may have decided to cheat. He has every right to receive half of her retirement and assets. If you don’t want a divorce, then learn how to sustain a respectful relationship for life. It is not fair for a man to walk away with nothing...

  • profile image

    Kawkap 

    7 months ago

    I really don't get the Author's dislike of MGTOW. There are plenty of miserable MGTOW, but that's a small percentage of the group as a whole. If men decide to avoid relationships with women, it's really their business, same with women avoiding relationships with men. The Author seem's to only offer a reason to dislike them from a brief overview of what they are. There is nothing wrong with porn, as long as there is no addiction. There is nothing wrong with giving up on the opposite sex, a lot of rejection can really break someone's view of relationships and it's not something to shame people for. The author has a very narrow minded view of men and relationships as a whole. She generalises a group I am willing to bet she has never actually talked to or listened to properly.

  • fpherj48 profile image

    Paula 

    7 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

    LOL....Oh, girlfriend... Thank you. You're my hero today. I was feeling a bit down & out....until I came upon your comment below! LOL, I was doubled over, laughing. I love you!! So real....so much a woman after my own heart. I literally heard your (Sigh).............LOL

    We would have such fun together. And perhaps need bail money.....:) P

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    7 months ago

    "...might get you beat up." Seriously Cackus? I guess if he's dating a serial female body builder.... but even then, highly unlikely, if not impossible. I know one. So get real, for once in your life. The reason most men become MGTOW is because:

    1) they have poor social skills and are tired of being rejected and therefore turn to porn as a substitute "girlfriend."

    2) they are older men who had a bad divorce because the ex-wife got half of the assets she actually deserved, and now they are really bitter about that....and finally....

    3) he's a guy who has never really respected women, even though he will deny this fact and pretend otherwise (I know who you are)

    So if you want to be lonely, follow the advice of any MGTOW. He will guarantee that your life will be miserable. But don't trust me. Refer to science. Science will tell you everything you need to know.

  • profile image

    Cackus 

    7 months ago

    Paul, count yourself lucky.

    But if you really want to date one of the first things you need to know is that the rules on how to go about it are unknowable and in constant flux.

    What one women demands of you will offend another. An introduction that gets one man a phone number might get you beat up. Unfortunately your inexperience means that a desirable outcome is unlikely.

    If you're not willing to risk your reputation, your safety and your income it's best to wait until you are very very sure of the outcome.

    Or just forget it and get on with your life.

  • profile image

    PAUL SHEA 

    8 months ago

    43 and I've yet to know what it's like having a girlfriend.......ever

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    8 months ago

    James, I do not take the insults of angry men personally; I know my own character. As an aside, I have had perhaps two women direct their anger at me for being somewhat conservative. That being said, I have had hundreds of men try to insult me through the use of profane language. (Big difference in numbers.)

    Nevertheless, I understand that hard-line feminism is as toxic as misogyny. Both philosophies are negative, in my opinion.

  • profile image

    James168 

    8 months ago

    Paula,

    is insults all you have?

    and yves, i don't think he was directing his comment about approaching women at you, he was making a general statement relative to the enviroment feminism created today.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    8 months ago

    I shake my head in astonishment at some of the things these guys say, and apparently believe. Honestly, Paula, it boggles the mind.

    If 1970 is actually a 48 year-old man, all I can say is "Wow," and not in a good way.

  • fpherj48 profile image

    Paula 

    8 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

    LOL....Oh Yves, girlfriend.....Quite honestly, I'm finding a couple of these comments must have been written by immature punks with a huge chip on their small shoulders....certainly not by grown, mature men with some class. I seriously doubt "1970" is his D.O.B.....He can't be 48.....his I.Q. perhaps, but not his age.

    "Smart men go blow up dolls." LMAO.....Now there's a real winner............(sigh)

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    8 months ago

    Glen....I've never said that men cannot approach a woman and ask for her number. Apparently, you did not actually read my article.

    I reviewed some of your (other) comments online. The do not flatter you. Consequently, you might want to be more cognizant of the unreliable image you project.....although I doubt you are currently capable of such self-reflection.

    Finally, my article pinpoints one type of man, not all men. So, to use your own logic: Stop painting all feminists "with such a broad brush."

    Read an article first, then comment. Good luck to you.

  • profile image

    Glen Livet 

    8 months ago

    The root of this problem is in modern feminism. Stop telling men they can't approach a woman and ask for her number. You realize women caused this confusion right? They created the problem, they need to fix it. Toxic masculinity, Gillette, MeToo, it's all gone too far. Men are not inherently evil. Stop painting men with such a broad brush. You want a man to chase you? Stop running so fast.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    9 months ago

    Thanks Ken, I blame Liberalism for the demise of the family, and thus, of "romantic" relationships. When Linda Gordon (Professor and Feminist) said, "The nuclear family must be destroyed" she meant it. Unhappily for many Americans, she got her wish.

  • Ken Burgess profile image

    Ken Burgess 

    9 months ago from Florida

    Yves,

    I believe that last post of mine comes across as more assertive, or on behalf of men, than I intended.

    "I still believe that any woman or man who is truly grounded is certainly able to give themselves permission to be the man or woman they really are."

    This is of course true, but this is also becoming the exception, not the rule. Mainly because the roles of men and women have been upended and undone.

    I certainly feel bad for my boys that have to come up in this environment, but I hope to teach them well enough so that they can protect themselves. Teach them to not own anything in their name, but have all possessions of worth held in corporations and trusts. It will protect them in the current American climate where lawsuits and lies hold immense power over ones finances and freedoms. This is the world we live in today.

    I feel even worse for women, who have to exist in this 'new' world where men will no longer want to take responsibility, and where society doesn't expect men to take responsibility.

    Women are expected to have a job, raise the kids, and take on all the responsibilities in society and in a household that was once split between two people. Women now are expected to be the man, and the woman.

    Men have no social and cultural demands and expectations, unless there are children involved, and even that depends on a variety of factors which are no longer considered the 'American norm'.

  • profile image

    James168 

    9 months ago

    yes, and most red pill men have been married and divorced. men who have never been married and those in happy marriages are happiest...... divorce and the Stress it brings is what drives men to the red pill.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    9 months ago

    Punisher1970.... Like I said...."Pathetic."

    FYI: If you cannot bring anything valuable to the table on this site, you will be deleted from now on, as will all others who act badly. I encourage you to get therapy. A licensed professional might be able to help you. I assume you are 37 years old (given your username) By now, you should have become an adult. Just know that this site is not meant to be the punching bag for angry, immature men to demean women.

  • profile image

    Punisher1970 

    9 months ago

    Porn and blow up dolls are way more valuable than women these days. At leats, a doll won't give me headaches and won't drain my bank account or cheat on me. Smart men go blow up dolls !!!

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    9 months ago

    James, actually it is. Statistically, such men die earlier and they have emotional problems stemming from their anger, not to mention their dependence upon porn, blow up dolls and female robots. Seriously, it's pathetic and very sad.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    9 months ago

    Punisher. Grow up.

  • profile image

    Punisher1970 

    9 months ago

    And if someone, like me, thinks otherwise, the author will erase our comments. No surprise !

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    9 months ago

    Yes. Very valid points, indeed, Ken. I wrote about this matter somewhat in another hub. All of that being said, I still believe that any woman or man who is truly grounded is certainly able to give themselves permission to be the man or woman they really are. Men are finding times tougher, but statistics show that women still have the harder time of it in nearly all areas of life.

    Consequently, I really don't feel sorry for Red Pill men. Not at all---but I do worry for the women who have to encounter them. Not all women are prepared for that amount of ire.

  • profile image

    James168 

    9 months ago

    the red pill isn't destroying men, no fault divorce, alimony, and astronomical child support not commensurate with the needs of the child is.

  • profile image

    Punisher1970 

    9 months ago

    Well paula, you must be over 100 years old, I guess, cause you sound out of reality. Back in the days, around 50s, women were romantic. These days, THERE ARE NO ROMANTIC "women". Just vicious leeches, and YOU KNOW THAT very well. You might still romantic, but unfortunately, women these days are not. Watch me give flowers to a woman and watch her LAUGH ON MY FACE and you tell me if im wrong. I understand that even after witnessing such a tragedy, your EGO and FEMINISM will not allow you to say : Yes punisher, unfortunately you were RIGHT. And beside, I dont feel alone, AT ALL ! Loneliness is for the fools who doesn't comprehend existence !

  • Ken Burgess profile image

    Ken Burgess 

    9 months ago from Florida

    Paula & Yves,

    I think if you review my previous comments in this thread, they entail the core of the problems we see developing today for women, as well as men.

    Our culture today is firmly moving against a 'patriarchal' society, one where all 'norms' for men are being systematically eradicated socially and legally.

    What is 'patriarchal society' anyways?

    "Men went out and did the tough jobs (mined for coal, farmed the land, died in wars) while women controlled the home and raised the children. That was the archetypical way of things for thousands of years. Men protected, men worked, men died, and when men failed at those things the women and children suffered or died."

    Men no longer have a role in our society, they aren't expected to be heads of the household, women can make the money, women have more legal rights to protection and power, and women can depend on the government to provide for them if they are unable or unwilling to provide for themselves.

    The confusion comes for women in the messaging they get from society: that they can have their independence, have their jobs/careers, being a stay-at-home mom is frowned upon by the messaging received today.

    And confusion for men, who are massaged through all modes in society today that everything they do is (or can be considered) harassment or sexist, that they have no rights, guilty until proven innocent... its the messaging in our news (Kavanaugh hearings), our media and universities, even in advertising (check out the latest Gillette Ad that is as anti-male as anything I have seen to date).

    We live in a culture today that is emphasizing to women that they should take on men's roles, while men are being told their roles and responsibilities are no longer their own. Problem is, men are men, and women are women, and a million years of genetic wiring and biology is not going to be undone by social experimentation... however the collapse of Western Civilization and culture as we knew it probably will be accomplished in the attempt.

  • fpherj48 profile image

    Paula 

    9 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

    Yves, dear friend....Yes, I do see what has been transpiring in the realm of love & life between the sexes. And although I'm currently not a part of the scenario, I can't help but wonder what the future holds for so many people, younger than myself. I actually can't even imagine what most of them are thinking..(especially men with the terrible attitude Punisher has). Good name for him since he's definitely into punishing himself.

    I do not wonder why I have such an intense longing for the simple, sweet good-old-days, when dating, falling in love and relationships were a healthy & natural progression as an integral part of our lives, without all the drama, deceit & egotism.

    You do a fabulous job and a great service to all, by the way, in terms of the topics you discuss with such grace & wisdom. Peace Girlfriend, Paula

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    9 months ago

    Paula, Punisher1970 has swallowed the Red Pill. If he's smart, he'll spit it out before it's too late. This philosophy is destroying men, as you know.

    Thank you for your input.

  • fpherj48 profile image

    Paula 

    9 months ago from Beautiful Upstate New York

    Punisher1970.....You poor, pathetic putz. Yves just provided you with the very best, realistic, honest and beneficial advice. Hopefully you'll wise up soon enough to straighten out your incredibly twisted view of women. Sadly, should you refuse to alter your sick attitude. which you unfairly have for ALL women, it's your own serious loss.

    Neither men nor women are perfect. It says much about you that you haven't seemed to figure out such a simple concept as of yet.

    Good luck to you within your long, lonely, loveless life. Worst of it is it's self-inflicted by ignorance. From: a real woman who gives as lovingly, as often and as authentically as she receives. Paula/2019

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    9 months ago

    That;s funny, because women are tired of drama, childishness and infidelities. Thank you, Punisher1970, for choosing not to date. That's one less immature man any woman has to deal with.

    And since you haven't figured it out, all women are not looking for providers only. They're looking for love. By the way, part of being a man is that you provide for your loved ones. That doesn't mean that providing is all a man is good for. Healthy relationships exist, but only when both parties have their "stuff" together. You're not there yet. I pray one day you will be, but you'll have to grow up before that can happen.

  • profile image

    Punisher1970 

    9 months ago

    The writer, just like most women, have displayed her lack of comprehension towards that situation. Take a note : Men are TIRED of dramas, childishness and infidelities. Men dont want to SPOILED females any longer. Its NOT worth ! The "equality" that females are so thirsty, just apply in their favor, but when its time to split a bill, they claim its men's responsibilities to be "providers". NOT ANYMORE. ITS OVER !!! THE TRUTH is that women are looking for "providers" ONLY, and love is out of equation. Its all about BUSINESS ! So, we woke up from such nightmares. Good luck, "ladies"

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    11 months ago

    Hi JesseWebb,

    Thanks for stopping by. To answer your question, a gatherer is simply a man who allows the woman to provide for him or to do all the work when it comes to initiating and maintaining relationships. He is a free love guy who has no staying power as a mate. His motto is "easy come, easy go."

    You, on the other hand, sound like someone who tries to be a gentleman and who has manners. That is the opposite of the gatherer. As for your awkwardness is social situations, don't give up. The more you practice, the more confident you become. We all start out with little finesse, but time and practice does improve our techniques.

  • profile image

    JesseWebb93 

    11 months ago

    Hey great article, I think this is much needed since a lot of people are aware of the issues with modern dating but don’t know what the source of the problem is. I was raised by my grandparents so it’s sad to say that I was taught the “old fashion way” but problem is I’m a millennial in my mid 20s. So very often I was made fun of by my method of approaching women. I’d also like to add that I grew up with a slight speech impediment that I outgrew so I was the victim of bullying very often so I found socializing to be a very uncomfortable experience at a young age and strayed away from it. I also wore glasses and was chubby so that made things worse. Now after high school I was glad to get away from my “reputation” as the weird or socially and I lost weight and started wearing contacts so I started getting more looks and signals from girls. So this is a very exhilarating experience because I’ve never felt attractive before so it’s a new and unfamiliar feeling to me. Guess what? I still didn’t get any dates my social awkwardness or social inexperience. I do much better now than I did a couple of years ago socially but I’ve yet to find a date or relationship as it’s very an aggravating process. I do have an objection about the “gatherer” statement cause it struck a nerve with me for a second as to the definition of a man who is a “gatherer.” I get a grasp of what your saying but don’t assume that just because I don’t approach a women that I am attracted to makes me less of a man because that’s what I feel like you’re saying. I am not a leach that free loads and has no sense of what responsibility means. Yes I lost my father at a young age but had other male figures. Not taking anything away from the insight you provided I’m just saying be a little more open minded rather than comparing me to someone who takes women for a sham. There’s a lot of pressure and anxiety to approaching a woman. We have to make sure we don’t say anything that comes across creepy even if we don’t harbor seditious intentions and if you put yourself in my shoes those days of being severely humiliated for putting myself out there feel like yesterday. I hate to resort to a sob story but I’m just saying be a little bit more clear about your definition as “gatherer.”

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    13 months ago

    Hi Rainmaker....I'm truly happy that you have your dogs and other interests. The key is to keep doing things that make you feel happiness. I also love that you're an "old-fashioned" guy. They're the best kind.

    However, you've taken 5 years off of dating. Consider it a hiatus that has now come to an end. You're at a great age to get "back on the horse" and begin dating again! Seriously, you don't want to be 58 and lonely. It's not a good plan.

    Also, I've probably met TWO whole people in my life who actually like to date or like seeking someone to date. As they say....You have to kiss a lot of frogs or frogettes, in your case.

    So seriously, Rainmaker, you can't get what you need unless you put a lot of effort into getting it. And most men are much, much better off with a wife and family. That is a statistical fact. And obviously, anything worth getting takes effort to get.

    You simply have to realize that there is definitely somebody for everyone, including you! So I implore you, make an effort to find that special person. Once you do, your life will be even better than it is now. One day, you could have a beautiful child of your own to raise and love with your wife, your partner, your helpmate. Good marriages still exist, but they take common sense and common goals to be successful. I have no doubt you can find your perfect love one day as long as you try.

    I'm cheering for you Rainmaker. It's time for you to get out of your comfort zone once and for all, and find that woman who is looking for someone exactly like you. She's out there. Trust me.

  • profile image

    Rainmaker79 

    13 months ago

    I see these ideas in this article as obvious sadly, many, possibly even most don't. Modern ideas of what men and women are screw up everything. No wonder divorce is so high. So many men I know (including myself) have completely stopped dating. I haven't been on a date since 2013 and have no prospects and have not even looked. I'm sure there are great women out there but they're incredibly hard to find and I just don't want to look anymore. Honestly, I'm happier now than since I was a kid (I'm 38). I have my interests I pursue and my dogs and I guess I no longer need or desire a girlfriend. I know I'm far from perfect but I am a gentleman and maybe a little above average looking and I really tried for years and I guess I ran out of interest. If I think about trying to date now, I just feel like its some horrible job I have to do and the desire disappears very fast. Im old fashioned and when I did date, I didn't treat women like this article describes but I still just didn't enjoy it. I guess I just never found the right one. If I could find the right one, I'm sure it would be great its just the looking I no longer want to do. Oh well. Like sucks then you die.

  • savvydating profile imageAUTHOR

    Yves 

    13 months ago

    Cackus, I am going to ignore your suicide theory for now because it is way too broad! However, I will say that Hussey is a dating coach who tries to help women, and who definitely speaks from a man's perspective.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2dorvKDkvs

    Basically, he teaches women how to act so that men will chase and want the woman more. (Yes, he has used to word "chase" in a positive way. He's a little bit of a jerk sometimes, but not in a rotten way. Hussey is actually a proponent of making sure the woman knows how to make the man want more.

    As for myself, I do believe that it is okay for women to get the ball rolling, so to speak, but she has to do so in a savvy, non-desperate manner. That is what Hussey is proposing, as far as I can tell.

    He's a bit tongue & cheek, but that seems to be his personality.

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