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Dating: 10 Things Men Don’t Do Anymore

Updated on June 20, 2016
Elaine Flowers profile image

Elaine Flowers is the co-author of "So... How Was Your Date? Dating Chronicles Of Single Men and Women" and the author of five other titles.

Dating Frustrations

I haven’t done a lot of dating recently but I have done my fair share over the years. So, at the risk of sounding frustrated by today’s dating scene, I am going to go there. I know I share the sentiments of many women, especially those women who have had the fortunate experience, like myself, of being treated well by men. When you’ve been treated well, you just can’t accept the BS that goes on with today’s dating scene. Things that were once taken for granted are now just memories and sometimes those things are all together forgotten because the nonsense seems to be the status quo.

Here is a countdown of things men don't bother with anymore:

#10 Men don’t ask women on dates anymore

They’re called “Meet Ups” now. WTH? I understand that since the emergence of online dating, that meeting a new person in a public place is necessary under those circumstances. No problem there. But what has happened is it has taken the place of real dating. In those instances where two people know each other the guys are requesting to “meet” the woman at a location to “hang out” as opposed to actually picking her up to take her out.

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#9 Men don’t ask women out in advance anymore

It’s Tuesday night and Sam rings Stephanie to catch up with her. After exchanging pleasantries for a moment, he gets to the point of his call: “There’s a new movie coming out this weekend. Would you like to check it out on Saturday?” By Friday, Steven is checking in to confirm things and then… Oh, wait—that’s 1984, not 2014. Now when a guy does actually ask a girl out, there’s barely enough time for her to do the necessary date-prep work.

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#8 Men don’t take charge of dating plans anymore

There are few things more frustrating than when you finally decide to go out with a guy for dinner and he leaves all of the decisions of where to eat up to you. Not only is he showing his lack of real interest in showing you a good time, he’s running the risk of you going over his budget for the evening. Besides, women love it when a man takes charge but at the same time is open to her opinion.

#7 Men don’t show up at your door with a gift/token anymore

I don’t know when this stopped but I know it was a long time ago. Way back when, a guy would arrive to pick up his date holding something as simple as a single flower, teddy bear, or a book that she said she wanted to read. Wow… I don’t know if anyone does that anymore.

#6 Men don’t work at impressing anymore

Something happened with the media advancement of today’s age and the need to impress women. Men now seem to be under the assumption that women are supposed to impress them. I’m sure there are many places to point the finger but women have been tricked into thinking that they are supposed to be working at the pleasure of men in the virtual world and in real life. What happened to men working to prove that they are worthy and capable of being with a woman? Something is definitely wrong here.

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#5 Men don’t give meaningful compliments anymore

Men whistling or giving a catcall when a woman walks down the street is nothing new. But that’s not what I’m talking about here. I’m referring to men ONLY taking notice of a woman’s physical attributes. And I’m not referring to locker room jargon, either. I’m talking about a man extending this nonsense onto the woman and trying to pass it off as compliments.

#4 Men don’t ask women to dance anymore

You’re at a club or even a private party and unlike back in the day when there were couples, there are groups of women on the dance floor and men standing on the sidelines either ogling them or ignoring them all together. Now if a woman doesn’t ask a man to dance, she’s stuck with not dancing at all or only getting off the wall to join in on a line dance.

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#3 Men don’t buy drinks anymore

Not only are women not being asked to dance, men don’t offer to buy a woman a drink anymore. However, they have no problem taking up her time talking while sipping on theirs.

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#2 Men don’t make phone calls anymore

I am all about modern technology but not to the chagrin of authentic communication. Texting is not a way to get to know someone. Texting is for, “I’m on my way,” “I’m running late,” not for, “What kind of work do you do?” and “Tell me about yourself.” Everyone being short on time and wanting to do things quickly has reduced us to this format of interaction and it just doesn’t work.

#1 Men don’t accept rejection anymore

I don’t know if men just don’t know how to take it or they’ve become more sensitive than they used to be, but they seem to be terrified of rejection. And this is the reason they don’t do the things listed here anymore. There is no middle ground—you know the man who puts in the effort and work to get the woman. Instead, they either don’t try at all or they don’t take ‘no’ for an answer.

Why Don't They?

The main reason that all of these things don’t happen anymore is because women, at large, stopped requiring them. We’ve turned men into lazy daters. You could argue that a guy is just not interested when he takes the short cuts, but I don’t think that’s it. Even when he’s genuinely interested, he doesn’t have to call—he can text; he doesn’t have to take a woman on a real date—today’s woman is fine with the meet-up; he doesn’t have to take notice of her brains and compassion—they go unnoticed because of her blossoming cleavage and big behind. I have always declared to be a romantic while making it very clear, however, that I am not a hopeless one, but I really wish we could just go back.

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    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 9 minutes ago from Dallas, Texas

      You are so right, Nina! Thanks!

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 11 minutes ago from Dallas, Texas

      Hey Steve,

      Here's my very humble opinion: even when women make the first move, eventually they lose respect. Whether it's on the first date or much later during an eventual relationship when the guy has adhered to the pace of her making all the first moves and decisions. So, your intuition is most likely correct. I think the the best way for a guy to handle being asked out by a woman is to, if he is truly interested in her, tell her nicely that he would prefer to do the asking, and then ask... That's my two cents on this subject. Also, I suggest you avoid all rude women and guess what, all women aren't rude. Good luck out there!

    • profile image

      Steve 80 minutes ago

      Elaine,

      Hmm, waiting to be asked out again or do it myself?...ha, I've been asking myself that since the date and seconf guessing myself.

      Well, as a guy who usually does the approaching it was quite flattering to be asked out (first time ever!) now I'm wondering if it makes a man seem weak if he lets a woman ask him out?, will only a really Alpha/feminist woman ask a guy out in which case do they see you as a beta?, should i have rejected her advances to appear stronger which sounds sort of daft as I did fancy her.

      On reflection I think I prefer doing the asking, it just feels better to me and more exciting (will she/won't she) even if it sometimes comes with crushing rejection :) which is another thing that seems to have changed a lot.

      In my twenties women who weren't interested in your advances would mostly let you down gently whereas women nowadays, especially if in a group seem to delight in rejecting men in the most embarrassing way possible .. and it's having an effect as lots of my male friends in their 30's are going full MGTOW and rejecting any sort of relationships as they just don't want to approach women anymore...

      Forgot to mention I'm in the UK.

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      Nina Woods 8 hours ago

      Siv Ingrid,

      Its certainly not all or nothing. I bought dinners and gifts (for no special occasion) for my last boyfriend. In fact, I paid for one of our first dates!

      Ive always liked buying gifts for my boyfriends.

      One of the best things he would buy me was a bag of beignets for $3.

      Things dont have to be expensive or one sided.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 23 hours ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for the comment, Steve!

      I promise, all women are not like that, or most even. Keep dating and be thankful that woman showed you who she was early on. Question: will you be waiting to be asked out again, or will you be doing the asking now?

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      Steve 25 hours ago

      I went out on a date last week with a girl who asked me out which I thought was quite exciting. We're both in our early 30's.

      Except almost the first words out of her mouth were "I don't really need a man" (not the best start on a date!) followed by lots of rambling about how much of a strong, independent woman she was and could do everything for herself and how lonely she was and wanted a boyfriend.

      I think lots of women have taken to the feminist teachings so hard that they can't even date anymore as they see it as some sort of surrender. She really wanted a boyfriend but wanted to prove she didn't need me at the same time.... as if we were in some sort of competition to prove who was the most alpha, so strange.

      Needless to say I won't be seeing her again and that may be my last foray into the dating world for a bit if all women are like that... internet porn is looking very attractive.

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      Paul 2 days ago

      Thank you for responding, Elaine. While I have never been affected negatively at a personal level by expressing interest in a woman I find attractive (I've never been on a date because I've never asked a woman out), I have heard this happens a lot from friends and others. I wish I could find the elusive 'good woman' you refer to, but am almost certain it will never happen.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 3 days ago from Dallas, Texas

      Paul,

      I believe what you're saying, but it's so hard. Because women outnumber men, therefore having a hard time finding a good man, it's hard to believe that men have that same struggle. But too many men say it for it not to be true. Sad times we're living in. Thanks for the comment.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 8 days ago from Dallas, Texas

      Siv Ingrid,

      You certainly make several good points. Things may not differ as much as you think from Norway to the US, the article is based on how things used to be. The problem here now is that some men have become bitter because of the way things used to be. And now when women make too many first moves, it sets the pace for the developing relationship and that can ultimately be emasculating for a man. Those are my thoughts...Thank you so much for posting and your input!

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      Siv Ingrid 8 days ago

      I am a woman, but I am just thinking loud on behalf of the men here. If I was expected to initiate every single date I went on, and even pay for every expense (gifts and all) then all these dates, that may or may not turn out well, it would end up being quite costly to maintain, right?

      I do support the idea of showing a clear initiative, maybe pick up the phone instead of text, plan the date a bit in advance. On that note, I think the initiative could also be made by women?

      I don´t live in USA, maybe the dating scene differs from where I live. I can´t say I´ve ever been to serious dates where a guy pays for everything, and honestly the thought of that makes me a bit uncomfortable.

      I am all about showing effort, it does not have to be extravagant.

      I would not need my dates to take place at expensive dining places. What about preparing an inexpensive homemade meal? Meeting at a quiet cafe? Going for a swim in the summer? As long as you want to do it together, is that not the point?

      I do think the dating culture in the US differs quite a bit from where I live (I live in Norway). I think dates should be about getting to know each other, and show some genuine interest in the person you asked out, no matter who made the initiative.

      Is it not give and take?

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 13 days ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for your comment Diana!

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      Diana Harvey 2 weeks ago from Philippines

      Hmm, what you are saying is in essence 100% correct, however there4 are so many women around that are actual bitches with a capital B that I think the have turned most men into little mice.

      I am older than my BF and I say to him, you cvould go out with women younger than me and he just laughs. He says you look at a woman the wrong way and you are supposedly raping them, gone are the days he says when you send over a drink because most probably she will come over and pour it over you.

      As to bringing a flower or whatever, he says ha, ha forget it.

      I think ladies that due to some they have ruined it for most of us.

      Take care

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks so much for your comment, Nina!

      Just like I tell the guys with horror stories of women they've encountered, there are more good guys out there than you/we may believe are out there. It may have to do with where we commonly go to meet guys; instead of the club or a bar, may the book store, for example...

    • profile image

      Nina Woods 2 weeks ago

      @Catrina, this stuff is part of the reason I am single so much.

      If I date i want to date,not be treated like an object. Guys nowadays do way less and expect way more. Most men ask for sex on the first date. For all the talk about men wanting love, many prioritize the sex! I've maybe had one guy, just one, who put sex on hold to get to know women. Otherwise it's, "I paid $12 for your dinner ro $5 for your drink, so have sex with me now."

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Okay, before I laugh at that last line, let me comment on your perspective. Wow! I don't doubt what you're saying but I certainly find it startling. But, surely for every woman you've discovered like the one you characterized, there MUST be at least three who are interested in having a guy like you take them out. That whole scenario I find sad and disturbing. Maybe search in a better pool of women...I suggest. #fingerscrossed

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      Marty Frazier 2 weeks ago

      Great article Elaine!

      The one thing I find is that it seems women don't know how to be courted this way anymore. I'm 33 and all of your stuff seems normal for a date, but women just arent into one on one dates anymore. At least not from the outset.

      I brought a flower on a date before. My date awkwardly accepted it but later told her friend, whom I work with, that "he gave me a flower thinking I'd sleep with him on the first date". That was not even my intention at all. Sleeping together wasn't even on my mind. Unfortunately, going on a one on one first date makes women think you're trying to get "laid" the same night.

      Seems women today dont even want one-on-one dates. They want group dates. They dont want the "gentlemen" experience either. They want to be friends with the guy first. They want the meetup and have fun experience, not necessarily the one on one dating experience with a true gentleman.

      To put it into perspective, this is also the generation that wears pajamas as outerwear...

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      Keith B 3 weeks ago

      I read this list and the last one about men being sensitive is not the issue. The fact is no guy wants to jump through hoops and so forth. I haven't dated since 2005 and I refuse to date western society women. The fact it's become work and really unpleasant.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thank you, Karen!

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      Karen 4 weeks ago

      Thank you for the post. I miss the old dating scene and real dates too. I guess I'm expected to just hang out for what seems like an endless time and impress the guy while he makes no effort. This I won't do. This new style of dating is too exhausting.

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      JimTheFlyer 4 weeks ago

      Well, I neither drink nor smoke, and I do not go to bars or clubs. Loud music gives me a headache and I much prefer hunting, fishing, hiking or putting in my normal 16 hour work day. Most of these "tips" are amusing, but not much else.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 5 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Dear JCN,

      Thank you so much for your post. Yes, it was long, but well worth the read. I hope you continue to work on your confidence and get out in search for love more often. Your intelligence and kind heart convince me you deserve it.

      Your post was insightful in general, but in particular, this paragraph:

      "Some men are reacting to all of this by simply shutting their minds off to love and marriage and turning themselves elsewhere, because their social status is lowering as a general rule (Personally, I often feel like the media is trying to make me feel ashamed for being a male, with the rise of feminism/stories about men committing sexual crimes, or is distorting me into believing I must be “male” as the media sees fit, eg, mister hyper masculine, super muscular, million dollar yacht owning, business investor, stock bond holder, SUV-driving superhuman! It feels like your confidence is a mirror, and someone is throwing stones at it all day long!)."

      Thanks again and all the best with your health and your heart!

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      JCN2 5 weeks ago

      I'm a mid-20s old male, and have currently been single my whole life. Personal opinion/story about the "current" state of dating affairs if anyone is interested in reading.

      I'd have to say that after reading a lot of comments in this article, I was somewhat surprised, but not entirely, at the anger and bitterness expressed by many men, or women, and various other reactions. I myself have been a victim of having been "played around with" by women (and once, even lost a close male friend because of a Greek tragedy style adventure... he “stabbed me” in the back over a woman), and these things really, really do hurt. I have also been rejected several times, but the problem with the pain associated with the rejection was the lack of clarity beforehand, or "friendship treason". I have already handled a straight forward rejection with a friend whom I fell in love with 1 year after knowing her, and have remained close friends as it was handled properly. Partly to blame, maybe, is a chronic mental disease that I was carrying around with me for 8 or 9 years un-diagnosed, as well as my field of education and work (STEM, male dominated area).

      I'm not particularly attractive I think - maybe a 6 or 7 out of ten (that's subjective, of course, but medication for my condition does tend to make me a bit pudgy or “open up my appetite”, and sleep issues sometimes make my eyes appear sunken). Now that I've finished with my education, and have gone into a line of work I enjoy, as well as had my underlying medical condition diagnosed and under control, I do feel more comfortable with myself, but I have to watch my stress levels and deal with paying the bills and living life on a regular basis - it leaves you little time with to invest into dating.

      One of the problems with modern day society is that it's incredibly competitive (more so when you have to deal with lifelong, chronic mental disease, which is a rising issue in the western world - I manage to make the ends meet somehow and do have a stable life at the moment). Men and women are under so much pressure, especially the younger people today who are just beginning their careers! In my case, I know there is a non-negligible chance that stress could send me back to a psychiatric ward.

      This does lead me to speculate about stress levels involved when an intimate relationship ends poorly – I must avoid things like that which may trigger the condition to reassert itself, even though medication! And as much as I hate to admit it, for some women, mental disease is a big no-go. Furthermore, looking at the rate of marriages that turn into divorces for people with my condition makes my eyes bulge-out, at around 90%...

      I no longer try to be particularly chivalrous purely for "dating" reasons, or attempt to "impress" women because, for one, women never really approach me in general, and my “chivalrous” attempts seem to come off as awkward/desperate. To be honest, I've somewhat given up on actively searching for any sort of intimate, romantic relationship, though rarely a do have a day or so when I change my mind. I'm the only person in my friends group that hasn't ever had any sort of relationship, short of just being a doormat or the very temporary rebound guy - ever (though I have learned to stop that happening). I am working on confidence as well.

      I don't however generalize women as one whole group of mean persons and am aware that maybe of just had a couple of bad experiences. I do, however, remain polite to people regardless of gender as a principle, it is my genuine belief that holding doors or other such general tidbits are socially “normal” to do, and for friends, paying for a friend's coffee every now and then or taking a friend out to dinner is something you do as well, and the service is often paid back because that's the way friendship works. To further this point, I consider myself lucky, that I have many friends, both male and female, and do appreciate that many of these friendships are of a relatively deep level, and I do go above and beyond the call of duty when I can for my friends, so I am not alone. It does give me some sense of purpose and intimacy which is somewhat fulfilling.

      The major problem I believe in today's society contempt for romance (or rather, the trend in that direction) neither completely stems from women nor men. It's more of a deep-rooted societal crisis, which I believe, is caused in part by BOTH men and women, mainly by what I see as a lack of maturity, in today's ever more consumerist and narcissistic and "laissez-faire, everything goes!" western society (I am note trying to come off as a know-it-all, this is just a hypothesis I support).

      First off, romance and love is oversold as being perfect and the “one in all” answer to ALL your problems. Wrong. It’s just like everything else in terms of trade-offs, except it is a long-term, very deep and personal commitment you will be making to a person. Heck, it’s the person you plan on having children with to raise! Secondly, and to complement the first point, is a lack of maturity in regards to what people want and need (categorizing, thinking about it too much, getting overly angry over it, people always wanting attention, and seeing people as purely “investments”….) It should be very simple, whether it is for friends or romance: set some appropriate, not “too high” or “too low” standards, think a bit for yourself, if an opportunity is available try to see where it goes, for the rejectee, don’t take it personally or go against wishes, and for the rejector, be polite, but direct, and don’t be rude or washy-washy about it, and as a general rule, stay around the people whose company you enjoy. People get scared to move and get angry at society when there is no longer any security or integrity/honor in relationships and how the system plays itself along.

      Some men are reacting to all of this by simply shutting their minds off to love and marriage and turning themselves elsewhere, because their social status is lowering as a general rule (Personally, I often feel like the media is trying to make me feel ashamed for being a male, with the rise of feminism/stories about men committing sexual crimes, or is distorting me into believing I must be “male” as the media sees fit, eg, mister hyper masculine, super muscular, million dollar yacht owning, business investor, stock bond holder, SUV-driving superhuman! It feels like your confidence is a mirror, and someone is throwing stones at it all day long!).

      Some women are reacting to all of this by having “little princess syndrome” and have (too much, in my opinion) power in being able to falsely accuse men of rape or such things, and get waaay too much preferential treatment in the justice system. And on top of that, there is some institutional bias which helps neither side (pay gaps, gender issues in professional environments...).

      All of these evolving social phenomena have completely trashed standard, classical social norms of society, intimate relationships included, and we are lost in a sea of self-doubt, division, and growing hatred of one another. There is no single fault or cause, except for society as a whole organism. Of course not every human is like this, but it is a growing problem.

      Social Darwinism (on a great scale) will take its course: if men and women no longer fall in love and under a societal model, and if society fails to correct itself, then the society will eventually fall apart or become so dysfunctional very extreme auto-corrective measures (eg war or dystopia) will be taken. Otherwise things may fall back into order.

      As for the article, I’d love to do dates and romance “à la old school” – but I haven’t found anyone who would care to reciprocate - partly due to me not searching and not having the time – and being afraid of having repeats of very painful experiences with immature people – maybe one day… (I would particularly like doing #s 8, 7 or 5 as a suitor, and consider of course alternating, as per egalitarianism). #2, texting, is arguably, my weak point. But I’m working on it!

      Thanks for the article, it was interesting, and did get me rambling!

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 5 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks Omari!

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      Omari Valentine 5 weeks ago

      Most of these have to do with the fact that these gestures are not necessary, and will either be used up on women who are playing a numbers game, or are not actually interested in dating more than casually.

      If you transported a guy who did all of these things from the 1950's, he would get chewed up and spit out by the dating scene today.

      Men don't have endless resources for game-playing. They see guys being successful at wooing women with Skittles, so they woo women with Skittles.

      Case-in-point: Men don't buy drinks for women because women use men for free drinks

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 6 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for the comment, Simon.

      I agree 100%. Women have become desperate, therefore tainted the dating pool. It's good to know there are guys out there still waiting on a good woman and willing to truly love her.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 6 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for the info, Mason.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Don,

      Thanks for the comment. I'm laughing at some of what you said, but you certainly have some golden nuggets in here. Yes, women have a bad habit (myself included) of trying to turn a man into what we want. None of us are perfect, we just have to hook up with someone whose faults we can live with it and find someone who can live with our's. We can't turn back the clock, you're right about that. And honestly, we shouldn't want to but it's difficult watching things change so drastically. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts!

    • profile image

      Don F1212 2 months ago

      "A lot of women like a man they can 'fix up'". Most of us guys don't want to be fixed, molded nor changed. I hear it from female friends, family members and coworkers. "If he would just do x,y,z." Change his clothing attire, have him spend less time doing something she doesn't believe he should be doing. That is a huge problem for us guys! I would think that any woman wouldn't appreciate it if every guy was pushing openly or softly to change?

      "Hey, I was thinking, wouldn't you like to wear this outfit instead of that one?". "Do you really want to go to that place,". "Why are you eating that?". I can hear the yelling now and see the eye stare burning into any guy that would go there. Yet women routinely will do this to guys. "Don't you want to change your clothes before we go out?". "Are you sure you want that big burger?". "Here, let me help you with that" (fixing his hair, appearance, etc).

      No one should like to have someone tell them how to be, what to eat, wear, etc. That's wrong on a human level.

      As for buying a woman a drink, that's up to the individual guy. I stopped that long ago. Many women expect it and don't appreciate it but will get frustrated when it is not automatically given.

      Most of us guys are not women haters anymore than I think most women are not men haters.

      Social norms have changed. 1910's. Women wore dresses that covered them from neck to toes. It was not-womanly to show ankles nor legs. Thankfully we have progressed. Women's place was in the home, cooking, cleaning and taking care of the men when they got home from work. Do we want to go back to that? I can hear my mother, sister and females everywhere cursing and ready to fight not to go back to that!

      In our current day society, most everyone has to produce an income on their own. Single, married, living together. One income is not even close to live off of unless you're ok being either homeless or one paycheck away from homeless.

      Women and men can perform any job that is available. Doctor, fire person, police, construction, engineer, politician, CEO, sales leader. Any job, any career opportunities are able to be performed by both genders. Some tasks may be performed better by one or the other. A guy working a physical job such as carrying office furniture may be able to carry more weight but there are hand trucks, wheeled pallets to help as well.

      Feminism is what it is. Both positive and negative. The economics of many western countries is what it is. Also both positive and negative.

      We can not turn back time. Men nor Women can cherry pick what they want to keep and what the want to bring back in today's time. We keep trying, hoping, praying, blogging but it can't be done or it would have been by now.

      Men can't have women act as the women of generations ago.

      Women can't have men act as the men of generations ago.

      Long winded here but it is that simple. Frustrating? Yes! For both sexes!

      Take care of yourself. Help to take care of your family members. Each of us can have a fulfilling live if we could focus on less and put more of our energies in a few priorities.

      Done.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for your comment, Steve.

      Yes, I agree. It is sad that many women are as you've described. But I believe that there are plenty of good ones out there too. You just have to know where to find them.

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      Steve 2 months ago

      It is very unfortunate that the women of today have really changed for the worst of all too since they certainly have no respect for many of us good men these days at all. Very troubled women nowadays that are everywhere now with a rotten personality to go along with it. Very difficult for many of us men trying to start a conversation with a woman that we would really like to meet since most of these women are so very extremely dangerous nowadays. And there are many of us good men that would really know how to treat a good woman with a lot of love and respect which they just don't give us men a chance at all which very much explains why many of us men are still single today. Women are quite different today from the past since most of the women years ago were the very complete opposite of what these women are today since most of them now are just so very horrible to meet now altogether. I am very shocked how the women of today really are now especially with all of these reality TV shows that they have on as well as social media that has really corrupted many of the women of today since it is all about them now as well unfortunately. It is very obvious to me that many of us men are just too good for these type of women anyway since many of us men have been hurt very badly already at one time having our wife cheating on us. And many of us men were the very faithful ones from the very beginning to the very end when we were married at one time.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Ban,

      I am so serious when I ask this question: where in the world are you (and obviously many others who've posted here) finding these horrible women that you describe? Seriously, where? I know there are some bad choices for women, as well as there are for men. I realize that I am from a much earlier generation but even the younger women that I know, just don't behave in this manner. But you mention these women as if that is all you're finding out there. That is startling to me. I seriously hope you answer the question. BTW, thanks for the comment.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thank you for your comment. I hope it's not lost in the heaping pile of the other comments. Your tone and words is greatly appreciated.

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      phyrebrand 2 months ago

      Most of the men posting here consider themselves good, polite men, but at the same time consider interacting with women a business transaction. So your goodness is merely a mask to your desire to get a 'good deal' basically using a woman. Humans use tools to achieve an end. Men expect women to be tools, like hammers. We are not. We are warm, loving, and passionate and loyal to a man that we can get behind. A relationship is a type of SHIP. It's a team effort to achieve a shared vision of life. It's more than the tit for tat that people see in today's expectations.

      Feminism is not same great evil that is receiving its comeuppances. Women enjoying themselves and basking in freedoms that their grandmothers never conceived of is not the end of humanity. It shouldn't be.

      Also under the impression that 'evil women' is just another vague 'they' accusation. There might be changes underfoot in dating, successful women might be choosy, individual nice guys might experience rejection that they don't underweand- but 'they' (or evil women) are probably not the sole cause.

      As individuals, we are each the authors of our own reality. For all of us who failed to secure a faithful partner or even a fulfilling dating, we just have to accept responsibility for our state. Nobody else is to blame.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for your opinion, Kofybean.

      I'm not sure I understand what you mean by, what do women do in dating. Do you mean what is our responsibility on the date? If that is, in fact, what you mean, equally, it's both the man and woman's responsibility to get to know the other person while on the date. Are you asking what is it that she takes the lead on? If so, men (in my opinion and how I was taught and raised) are supposed to lead. Again, not sure if I understand your question.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Very interesting perspective, Galen. Thanks for the comment and post.

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      Jamie 3 months ago

      It has a lot to do with the singles scene rhetoric entering the mainstream through social media, online dating and mainstream media, its the small market of singles scene desperation dating gone mainstream carried by false promises of sex they don't have to pay for and affection they don't have to put their neck on the line to get. People outside of it laugh at men who do it as losers and sneer at women who put up with it as being desperate, the men do it to see just how much they can get for nothing because they have hang ups about women. This sort of behaviour has been going on for a long time with low quality men who try to argue their position at the expense of results and becoming alienated, they set themselves up in a viscous cycle of rejection, low investment, rejection, which they then blame women for, you don't see well adjusted men around that scene nor do they need to go there, they have too much self esteem to get involved. For the rest of us we have fewer dates but we have quality dates with excellent people, the singles scene crowd is just irritating background noise and fodder for lunch chats.

      Since women now can work (not that they get paid as much as men do and are the ones who have to give up at least some of their work life if not career to have children) men should be raising the courtship bar not lowering it, women bring more to the table now than ever before, the only men who complain about that are misogynists who see womens only purpose as to serve them. A lot of men who engage in it are un or under employed, have poor social skills, are unattractive physically and mentally and have a dog eat dog mentality, it only looks like there are a lot of them for the same reason it looks like there are more married men seeking flings than single men looking for a date, low investment equals low risk, they ask a lot of women because they figure they have nothing to loose, what it willget them is a merry go round of shallow interactions and failures, no one is invested in a man who invests nothing of himself.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 3 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Joe,

      Thanks for the comment you've posted. I cannot argue with your point. I remember after I went through my divorce (many years ago), I thought to myself frequently about getting married again that I wanted a husband but I didn't want to be a wife. I wanted the benefits of marriage but not the responsibility; and I know a lot of women who have never been married who think that same way. Marriage was not what you were directly referring to, but the same thought process is present when thinking about dating and relationships where a lot of women are concerned. Men and women alike want benefits without responsibility when ultimately we should be interested in finding someone who truly loves us and who we can truly love.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 3 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for the comment Turd,

      I don't have a problem doing any of those things but because I believe men should lead, I would not initiate any of that. Yes, Women's Liberation is apart of the issue here but I am no Women's Libber.

    • profile image

      Someone who just plays video games. 3 months ago

      I just don't care because I'm having far too much fun enjoying everything in my life to even imagine the thought of sharing it with someone else, and besides the media doesn't do women justice with the amount of shit they do to make men fear like they have to sacrifice their own enjoyment just to make you feel happy, we're not into you because you cannot do the same for us.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 3 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for the advice. I should probably do that.

    • profile image

      MarkyMark11 3 months ago

      You said this above "just as blacks cannot be racist according to its true definition. Women do not hold the power, so I'm not sure if we can, in turn, be sexist."

      It sounds like you're saying blacks and women cannot be racist in America but they can be prejudiced? I assume you believe it would be wrong to hate me for the sole reason that I am a man? It seems you're making a very semantic based argument--as most if not all dictionaries define racism the way I defined it.. It would be more clear going forward when you mention "blacks cannot be racist" to explain that they still can be prejudiced and tell your readers that you aren't using a dictionary definition rather your using the definition of some professor that you once knew.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 3 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      MarkyMark11,

      Yes, hating someone based on his or her race is wrong. That is called being prejudice, as in prejudging them before having a pure reason to dislike or hate him or her. The examples you used are examples of being prejudice. If you are walking down the street and hate a black person purely on his race, you may be joining into a racist culture that already exist, making you a racist (if you are indeed apart of the majority group).

      Racism is about controlling a particular race of people. Minorities of any group do not have the power or resources to practice racism over another group who happened to be the majority.

      For the love of God and all that is Holy, can we please get back to the subject of this article?

    • profile image

      MarkyMark11 3 months ago

      Elaine you said "You don’t have to believe me, just ask someone who is truly educated on the matter like a professor of social anthropology"

      Rather than ask professors or "experts" I am asking you.

      Do you think I am not racist if I say the "N" word in Africa?

      Are you not racist for hating a white person walking down the street in the US cuz they are white?

      Am I not racist if I hate a black person walking down the street in the US?

      Am I not racist for hating a black person walking down the street in Africa?

      We don't really need a professor here they are fairly basic questions that we both should easily agree on. We don't need to get into a semantic argument so if you want to define "racism" as meaning something else then do you agree it's wrong to do these things?

      I will focus on the article but I found your opinions to be disturbing with regards to race.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 3 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      MarkyMark,

      Thank you for your comment. Please, bash me on the article if you disagree with its content but let’s not focus on confusing racism with being prejudice. Racism is about groups, not individuals. You don’t have to believe me, just ask someone who is truly educated on the matter like a professor of social anthropology, for example. And to your point, by the time I told the other man to take ‘your white self to any country in Africa’ I was annoyed and had deleted many of his posts going on and on and on. Racial tension and matters are sensitive for white America right now (even though they’ve always been sensitive for blacks) so I get that and I get why you feel the need to say what you’re saying. I’m not trying to change your mind on how you view things; it is what it is. But let’s not call each other unstable. You have your frame of reference, so realize that I have mine.

      So again, let’s stay on the subject of the article.

    • profile image

      MarkyMark11 3 months ago

      I'm not one comment but this comment by the author really blew my mind in a bad way

      " And black Americans lack the ability to control anything over white Americans. Now, take your white self over to practically any country in the African continent, and they will have the ability to practice racism against you."

      So according to her if I call a black person the N word in America than I am a racist but if I do in Africa then I am not? Also a little disrespectful of the author to refer to someone as their "white self." She seems as Galen pointed out to be unstable even though she constantly tells everyone else to calm down.

      We're getting to a very dangerous point in society if people believe Elaine's definition of racism and are glad to promulgate this lie. Racism is based on race not power. Racism is hating another race for being another race. It's perfectly fine to hate your boss if he tells you to buy him a coffee and your job is an investment banker. It's not okay to hate someone because they are white and are walking down the street minding their own business. They may even be poorer than you! They may have a worse life than you. I am not sure how Elaine says this "white" person can exercise power over a black person. I certainly have no power to tell Lebron James to give me all his money or Kanye or any richer black person I know. I wish I had this amazing power she speaks of.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Jason,

      Thanks for the comment. You and I are in the same age bracket so I certainly hear where you're coming from. There are some silly women out there with check lists and aren't interested in finding a true connection. Yes, things have changed and men are no longer falling for the trap some women have set for the unsuspecting man. I do, however, believe that when two people who are meant to be together, the things on this list I've created won't matter one bit. You sound like a great man and I hope you have (or will find) a great woman. If not, sounds like you're doing just fine!

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Galen,

      Insane? Really? Question (rhetorical): why does this article make you angry? And, angry enough to call me insane? You may need to do some self-evaluation. Try researching the true meaning of racism (not being prejudice, which is different) and get some answers for yourself. This is not an article about race or religious persecution. Calm the hell down!

    • profile image

      Alpha 4 months ago

      I can't believe what I've just read! I think you need to get over yourself, you women wanted equality but expect us to do everything. Times have changed how about you women do some of the things you have mentioned in your little rant.

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      Jason 4 months ago

      Hi Elaine,

      Good article, but it seems unfortunately optimistic for this era.

      In reality, many of us are now far too jaded this level of chivalry.

      Yes, we use to offer to buy women drinks in bars. Unfortunately, we have spent many evenings buying drinks just to be told at the end of the evening, that the woman is not interested in us. That's fine, but why say that after the six or seventh drink? That's what we are sick and tired of. When women can go the bar and spend all evening drinking for free, at our expense, there is a problem with the system.

      I'm not even going to mention the idea that if she is interested, the drinks shouldn't be the deciding factor.

      Chivalry IS officially dead. While the following is an extreme example, it is a real example from about five years ago. I was waiting for an elevator. Two women approached and were also waiting, slightly behind me. The elevator arrived and the door opened. "Ladies first," I said. They walked into the elevator. Once I had entered, one looked at me and say "We are women, not ladies." My thought, "Very true."

      The reality is that we are not as dumb as we are portrayed in the media. I was raised to be kind and chivalrous. Now, my chivalry is only practiced for people that seem to be my age (I'm 50ish) or older. Those seem to be the generations that still appreciate it.

      I am so tired of not being good enough because I am not six feet tall. If 5' 10" isn't good enough, then I'm out.

      I have a great job that I love, I can't remember a time that I was unemployed. I try very hard to be kind and cheerful. I have a pension plan at work. I own property. I try to help the less fortunate. So ..... I have to be six feet tall too? Lol.

      Let's look at the sliding scale here for a moment. One date is a couple of days of planning. A couple of hundred dollars for dinner and drinks, plus the flowers and/or gift. Now lets assume for a moment that I want to look presentable, so I may do some dry cleaning and a car wash before I pick her up. And all of this is so that I can find out if she is interested?

      Do you remember the old saying that goes "just because you bought me dinner, that doesn't mean that I owe you anything?" I believe that the statement is correct. But, how about this "just because I think you are interesting, doesn't mean that I owe you anything." If the interest is mutual, then let it blossom organically. If the interest isn't mutual, I'll save my two hundred dollars.

      Man are starting to realize that we don't really need a woman to complete us.

      So, I'm afraid that I am exactly one of the men that your article discusses. But, I'm a bit worse because I no longer ask women out at all.

      I am independent, self-sufficient and intelligent. Why would I put myself through all of that?

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for the comment.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for the comment.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Based on its popularity (I'm guessing) they republished it. Good question, though!

    • profile image

      Thomas 4 months ago

      Why are the comments dated "2 years ago," when the article is less than a year old as I read this??

    • Josef Dickens profile image

      Josef Dickens 4 months ago

      It's simple; the men that don't even date are wising up and they see how the dating scene is rigged and one sided. In this age of "equality", third wave feminism spews all kinds of garbage like how men just need to "man up" and deal with it and take this and that. Well, the bull**** is getting called out for what it is and things are going to start changing, especially in America. It's already happening with the teaching of MGTOW, Men Going Their Own Way and it's the most logical philosophy for men who care about protecting themselves against broken custody courts and greedy, spiteful women. I happily dine out alone at the nicest places and my tab isn't double and it's just wonderful. I see dudes on dates and think to myself, glad I'm not you. MGTOW is the solution and it's dangerous for women but this is what they get. This is what happens when generations of women are indoctrinated and taught that they are superior and entitled princesses. Wise men will take heed, the blind will learn the hard way.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQfBt_GxYaI&t

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Which fools are you referring to, Perry?

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      Perry Rose 4 months ago

      Fools like these is why I sometimes feel sorry for women.

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      Galen L 4 months ago

      This is a true point by Jack, and it is unclear why Elaine feels the need to be condescending to Jack as if him being a PUA disqualifies his opinion.

      I have a good friend who is a girl. A guy and her dated for a month. He did everything for her. Her phone broke down so he came over at 1 AM to ensure she woke up the next night on time. He was there all the time. He ended up breaking up with her when she kept saying you need to do more for me. I am special etc. She had been spoiled by other dudes who had bought her lots and lots of presents. And him buying her food, drinks wasn't enough for her. She needed even more.

      Anyways, they break up. 2 weeks later he says, I am thinking about you etc. And now she again wants to date him and is still super interested with essentially no commitment. Now, it's non exclusive far more on his terms--if he chooses to continue.

      The issue is girls often push guys away when they are being nice. It's a human trait. Such as when your company gives you 15 days of vacation you want 16. If they give you 30 you want 31. Men have learned to not give women metaphorically, 30 days vacation for her to push for 31. If you give her 1 day of vacation again metaphorically she might even respect you more.

      It's a tricky dating environment for men and women. men and women are both going on more dates than ever and are less satisfied than ever. Both , men & women, are dating so many people that their standards have risen to super high levels for what they will accept.

      Just like a person eating steak for a week at a rich family relatives house may raise his standards forever. So does a woman dating a 10/10 male or seeing him. Her standards are often unrealistic. But, it's not just women it's also men.

      So everything is a perfect storm for an awful dating environment all around. Succinctly put, keeping investment low as Jack said tends to be the more correct choice of action. But all rules should not be 100% followed. There may be random exceptions but as a rule of thumb he isn't wrong.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Wow! Thanks for info, Pick Up Artist Jack!

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      Jack 4 months ago

      I'm not sure how I got to this site. Some random bit of click bait I imagine. I thought I'd throw in my two cents. I've been a pickup artist most of my life. I can tell you flat out that if you exhibit any of the behaviors on this list with modern American women under the age of 40 you will fail and fail hard. The first rule of the PUA is 'don't listen to a word a woman says. Watch her actions instead.' The second rule is, 'Don't spend a dime on a woman until you've been to bed with her.'. Those rules are ironclad. Don't break them ever.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Again, thanks.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thank you, Perry :-)

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Jamie,

      Evil? Really? Again, blacks in America can be prejudice but they do not have any overall power as a group, therefore they cannot execute any type of racism against whites (if we're using the actual definition of the word). Be blessed.

    • profile image

      Perry 4 months ago

      "I never said I was entitled to receive any of these ten things, . . ."

      No, Elaine, but you implied it. And you believe it.

      Hell, in that same post you used the word "fate."

      I'm not going to post again. It doesn't make sense for the two of us to do that when we strongly disagree with one another, especially when you aren't being honest here..

      But I still do wish you all the luck with that man in your life.

    • profile image

      Perry 4 months ago

      Jesus, Jamie. How many posts are you going to do?

      Go find a hobby, bud.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 4 months ago

      Though, I think the conclusion from all of this should be that Elaine says black people can't be racist. That's perhaps more astonishing than all the other crap she wrote.

      Really evil stuff.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 4 months ago

      Perhaps your younger girl friends are suffering this fate due to all the meams of girls trying to get guys to buy them pizza on apps like tinder etc.

      Whether or not you like being spoiled . I can't blame men for not wanting to be taken advantage of. A few bad apples always ruin the batch.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      You are absolutely right and I know plenty of women who do just that. But that wasn't the point of the article :-)

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Perry,

      I never said I was entitled to receive any of these ten things, although I do (my younger girlfriends are the ones mostly suffering this fate). The article is simply about things that men once did that they no longer do. However, you and I may not agree on the reasons why that is the case.

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      Perry 4 months ago

      Elaine, you are not entitled to anything.

      And women can ask out men just as easy.

      This article is why I no longer approach women.

    • profile image

      goldielox2382 5 months ago

      This. This. And, this again.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 5 months ago

      Yes, the US is so backward compared to Scotland and England. I'm not going to reference other websites but if you were to do a quick search there are many economic studies of women in their 20s make more then men.

      There's no proof that it's any longer a man's world when we

      1) have to pay child support even if we don't want the kid but a woman can do an abortion and men can't opt out?

      2) male prison sentences for the same crime are far longer.

      3) as said above women in their 20s make more then men.

      I see you deflected my clear example of racism. You can continue to believe the racism isn't about race but power. You're right the topic isn't about that but a little disheartening to see you trivialize the evils of hating another race for looking different than you. But of course you couldn't be racist right? Because whites make more money than black people on average therefore there hatred is just fine.

      I will say at least you're consistent Elaine. If you do believe in putting your career secondary then your ideas are great. Unfortunately, most of your readers want it all. They want their man to treat them like a queen and they want to also ensure that they have the same pursuits as a man. So essentially, they want all the positive of being a traditional woman and non of the negatives. This isn't you and thanks for the discussion.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 5 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Jamie,

      First, racism is when one group with power denies equal rights to another group without power. Over the years, this definition has been watered down and is frequently confused with prejudice, which is what you've described. But that's not even what we're here to discuss.

      Second, The title of the article is "10 Things Men Don't Do Anymore" not "Elaine's 10 Demands" so quiet down with them demands you claim I'm making.

      Third, I have a man. So, that takes care of that.

      Lastly, if I'm a sexist, then so be it. I like clear defined roles and I would not have a problem with my husband's career coming first. Also, I live in the US, not Germany, Scotland, or the UK. And, it's a man's world whether you want to admit it or not.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 5 months ago

      Not sure, why you're attributing anger to me perhaps it's your own anger you're misplacing on me not sure.

      On racism, yes by true definition you can be racist if you don't like white people, Elaine. Walk around you're office shooting black power and kick white people and let me know if you're not being a racist for doing it.

      Onto your last point, yes if someone is interested they shouldn't be treated like crap but above you had a list of demands youre owed for being a woman. You tempered your demands in your last post that the man should be interested. I agree. But being interested doesn't mean he showers you with gifts. Again if that's what it takes to make you interested then who would want to be with you? If you don't know what a diva is then that is the definition. Someone who needs to be showered with gifts to be happy in a relationship.

      Again it would be pretty sexist for me to say I need a woman who cook and cleans, puts her career secondary to mine, never goes out of the house without my approval.

      I am merely pointing out the latent sexism in your posts. And yes you can be sexist. And where's this idea that women don't have power. They are the leaders in Germany, Scotland ,UK, they make more then men in their 20s, they vote more then men. Not sure you're making yourself look very educated here Elaine by spouting mistruths.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 5 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Wow James,

      You've called me arrogant, I'm not. You say I think I'm special, I am! And every woman should think that she is special. If she doesn't, then she'll start accepting being treated poorly. You've called me a diva, I'm not sure what your definition is so I'll let that go.

      If a man has asked me out on a date, I would assume that he will put forth the effort of showing me that he's interested in me. And that's all I think I'm owed at that point. And he, in turn, should have expectations of his own (being treated with respect, etc.). It's really pretty simple.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 5 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Great points, James!

      Thanks for your response. I'm sure that different times have called for things being done differently.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 5 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Jamie,

      Why the anger? I understand that you may have not read everything in the article or the many responses but I have admitted that I believe in specific gender roles. And if a woman can be a sexist, then you can ascribe that to me. I say if, because I'm really not sure; just as blacks cannot be racist according to its true definition. Women do not hold the power, so I'm not sure if we can, in turn, be sexist. At any rate, I move on. Your "assumption" of me believing in equality between the sexes, is also incorrect. I believe in equal rights as human beings but in the work place, there are certain jobs (and activities) that men do better and vice versa. I'm not sure who you're calling a moron but how about we not call names and such. You're entitled to your opinion and there's no reason for any of us to be indignant as we discuss this.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 5 months ago

      Exactly James

      What arrogance of Elaine and women in general. You aren't special at all. You will be with us if we get you 0 drinks. And every guy knows this. Money is scarce and certainly women are worth $0 investments at the current time. Their stocks are at all time lows.

      If you want to raise your stock -women what you would need to do is go back to the old patriarchal society where you had no income and you relied on men for everything.

      I actually prefer the current society of equality but my point is you can't have both. You can't have a society that is egalitarian that then forces men to simultaneously provide presents and gifts just to be with a women.

      There is just this perpetual arrogance by people like Elaine that women are so special. I think that is why men are leaving the dating market in droves. Men want to date their equal not a diva like Elaine.

      And Elaine may be like GOOD I don't want to date you either.

      Again which explains why people leave the dating market. If people like Elaine thinks shes owed something for just going on a date then we have a problem.

    • profile image

      James 5 months ago

      Some of these have been done away with for good reason for example picking up a woman for a date. In the past this was custom because there were far fewer woman who had access to cars or even drivers licenses. It is a different case today and as a result more woman want to feel independent by driving themselves and meeting a man at a place. As for woman loving it when a man takes charge, as a young man in college I can say first hand that women find this condescending and would rather be active in deciding which location the date happens at. Lol and lastly for the buying drinks at a club for a woman. Many men have been burned by mooching woman far too many times. This is obviously not true of all woman but far too many will pretend to be interested in what a man has to say and then shut him down, conveniently after stringing him along and making him pay for a few drinks. In tough economic climates clubbing is very expensive for millennials and you can barely afford to drink for one let alone 2.

    • profile image

      Jeff A 5 months ago

      Men are not stupid we're problem solvers, things like this don't just happen or not happen for no reason. Men stopped doing the things the author is writing about because they stopped working with women. We have been observing throughout our lives that the men who continue to have the most success romantically with women are the ones who didn't do any of these things AKA the Bad Boys and when we did them or we saw our friends do them they and we were relegated to the friend zone just about every time. If being a nice guy starts working again believe me you'll see men starting doing left and right.

    • profile image

      Winter 5 months ago

      About number 3: Have you ever been to bars lately? Because I stopped going to them for 2 years, still don't know why so many people love them. They are the worst place to meet anyone (you can't hear at all with the ridicously loud poor quality music).

      And have you ever read those news about rapes or kidnappings when a woman accepts a stranger's drink?

      And number 4: I still don't know why so many people love modern dancing music from my country, seriously, a dog's barking has much higher quality and the lyrics.. oh God... a kindergarten book is way smarter and more elaborate than that pile of crap.

      That's why I don't dance, people here only dance to that garbage, it's even completely ridiculous and disgusting. (The ironic part it's that the lyrics usually insult women and most of them dance it so happily).

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 5 months ago

      "You're exactly right if getting laid is a guy's only motivation when interacting with a woman. Sad, sad day we live in... Men don't at all seem to be interested in love or being in a relationship with a woman."

      I love how you take the comment of one pathetic man and you attribute it to all men -sex isn't valuable at all -and woman vastly overrate it's value thanks to morons like the above -there's no reason to use women just for sex because sex doesn't feel that good, its around the same as masturbation -what's different is the bonding and the satisfaction from the interaction just like going out and having a fun night with friends can put you on a mental high.

      I literally said right above "Why should i flower you in gifts if society isn't stopping you from getting the same job as me? It makes 0 sense. I will give you nothing. and you will date me because you like being with me. I am loyal and devoted and am interested in an LTR. If a girl doesn't get this than I'd prefer not to date."

      And you still haven't shown why your article isn't sexist. I assume you believe in equality but also believe it's a man's job to do all these special things just because someone is a woman.

      Hypocrite much?

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 5 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      You're exactly right if getting laid is a guy's only motivation when interacting with a woman. Sad, sad day we live in... Men don't at all seem to be interested in love or being in a relationship with a woman.

    • profile image

      Jim 5 months ago

      A guy can get laid without the effort these days, so why bother with all the things in your list?

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      Susan Crookes 5 months ago

      Totally agree,I'm fed up with the dating scene because most men don't want to daw,they jus want to get laid without putting their hand in their pocket

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 6 months ago

      Exactly, most girls today want to spend their 20's sleeping around rather than dating. Laine isn't realizing the crappy dating market for men before she makes her audacious asks of men.

      The real question is why women are even allowed to demand such things without being labeled a sexist? I am sure lainey would say men and women deserve equal jobs and everything but when it comes to relationships women must have all these perks.

      How about you get what I get? I love equality, it's time women loved it too or else why date you? Why should i flower you in gifts if society isn't stopping you from getting the same job as me? It makes 0 sense. I will give you nothing. and you will date me because you like being with me. I am loyal and devoted and am interested in an LTR. If a girl doesn't get this than I'd prefer not to date.

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      Late2theparty 6 months ago

      Eh... Ever since I gave up on the illusion of ever being in a relationship life's been wonderful.

      It is so much easier to just look at porn. Variety, low maintenance, and easy access. Versus what?... Drama, mind games, hypocrisy. Lol are you serious.

      Why would I want to spend all of my 20's building resources just to have the woman that can't attract the studs anymore to SUDDENLY want me. I wonder why. The package deal also comes with the sperm donor's spawns.

      Or shall I say pawns because they'll be used as emotional bullets for the law to aim at the next idiots head if he tries to tie the knot. What a joke.

      What sort of fool would accept that deal?

      No amount of shaming will convince me to ever fall for that bs again. Let's be real for a second.

      You slept around for 10 years after highschool. Slowly, you noticed the younger gals stealing the attention from the men you used to be able to snag. So you do the smart thing. You change your methods to get the same result.

      So you go for guys you'd ignore before. Less competition. The same amount of attention. Sweet deal right. There's one problem.

      WE'RE HUMAN BEINGS TOO. Men are not expendable resources. What's up with this ridiculous idea that if you make fun of us you will get us to do what you want? Lol. GROW UP.

      Don't play the game and then complain about the rules. Then once, you change the rules you complain again because we do what you should have done in the first place. Not play.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 6 months ago

      This is probably what the modern day male fears the most https://twitter.com/johnhawkinsrwn/status/83017969...

      Elaine and her gal pals were incorrectly say that this sweetheart will one day find the woman of his dreams but they all don't want to ironically be that woman. Every man knows this. You love this guy but wouldn't have a relationship with him.

      And this 100% sums up why no self respecting male will do anything on her list.

      We are in an inbetween period where woman want what their mothers had but actually are unattracted to it. Why are they unattracted? Because 1) women have jobs now so showing them resources isn't the same draw it used to be rather it makes you look pathetic. 2) Government has filled the role of the traditional male. again women don't feel like their live is ruined if they don't get married.

      In conclusion. Elain is 100% right that men don't to these things anymore but her conclusion is 100% wrong. Men are simply not doing these things because there is no value in them.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 6 months ago

      It's good to know that using the word chick 2 times out of 100 in an internet message board is what is making girls lose interest. I don't think this comment makes me the chauvinist you are implying. I believe women and men are 100% equal.

      The point of my argument was to say that there is a lot of planning still expected of men that women don't see. This planning means that I can’t just simply enjoy myself and sit back and relax. You also agreed with me that my job is to provide you with an excellent time. Given the highly stressful dating situation for me, I said it makes me not want to do it. I also gave a specific example of what I can do to improve and there's many more. You offered in return that girls when they find "Mr. Right" will make it work. But this is no different than what men already know about women. The question was what will girls do to improve themselves before they know if he is Mr. Right or not? Like all men know that women will do anything when they meet a 10/10 male. So you're not adding anything new here. Women will often blindly stick by horrible men if they meet their attractiveness and social standard in terms of seeming popular.

      I would suggest one thing woman can do to improve. The idea of "Mr. Right" doesn't exist and the idea of being willing to give guys a chance that don't seem to be Mr. Right at first blush but aren't Mr. Wrong either. They are Mr. Almost Right.

      But it would be nice to see your opinion on what woman can do to improve themselves.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 6 months ago

      It's good to know that using the word chick 2 times out of 100 in an internet message board is what is making girls lose interest. I don't think this comment makes me the chauvinist you are implying. I believe women and men are 100% equal.

      The point of my argument was to say that there is a lot of planning still expected of men that women don't see. This planning means that I can’t just simply enjoy myself and sit back and relax. You also agreed with me that my job is to provide you with an excellent time. Given the highly stressful dating situation for me, I said it makes me not want to do it. I also gave a specific example of what I can do to improve and there's many more. You offered in return that girls when they find "Mr. Right" will make it work. But this is no different than what men already know about women. The question was what will girls do to improve themselves before they know if he is Mr. Right or not? Like all men know that women will do anything when they meet a 10/10 male. So you're not adding anything new here. Women will often blindly stick by horrible men if they meet their attractiveness and social standard in terms of seeming popular.

      I would start with a few things:

      1) The idea of not being overly choosy would be a good habit for women to start considering

      2) The idea to make date plans of her own and to provide some of the fun

      3) To not sleep around constantly making them low value

      It would be interesting to see your opinions of what a woman can improve in order to be more "investable." At the end of the day no one is going to buy a woman a box of chocolates if they know she participated in a gang bang and sleeps around. And women also seem to always default that exercise and makeup is the only answer.

      What can woman do besides physical to make themselves better for men to pursue? Or is it just a one way street? And are the genders going to continue growing apart.

      In Conclusion: Men see society as a 2 way street but see the date demands of women as being a 1 way street. Women believe in chivalry only when it stands to benefit from them. Will women begin to do things to win men?

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 6 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Dear The Truth Is,

      If you're meeting women who are cursing at you, you may want to rethink where you're going to meet women. That is not the norm... And it doesn't have to be at church either. There are many places to meet nice women. Good luck!

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 6 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Jamie Smarson,

      Thanks for your post! The only comments I’ve deliberately avoided were those just like earlier comments that I already responded to. I didn’t want to keep repeating myself but I do appreciate that many men have your’s and the same opinion. I think it’s great that you look to see how you can improve (you may want to start with not referring to women as chicks and girls) and you’re absolutely correct, women should do the exact same thing. None of us are perfect but I do believe that when we come across the right person for us, we should be willing to do whatever it takes to make the relationship work. If that means I am more supportive to my man, so be it. If that means you should put for effort (for example) in making date plans, then so be it. In short, be ready when the woman perfect for you crosses your path.

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      The Truth Is 6 months ago

      Well unfortunately most of the women nowadays are just so very horrible altogether since they really have no personality, no good manors, no respect for us good men, a very bad attitude problem, they always look so very mad all the time as well. Very troubled women that we now have out there nowadays unfortunately since they really do have problems with us men as i can see which is a very excellent reason why many of us men are still single now since we really have no reason at all to blame ourselves either. These women unfortunately most likely had been abused by the men that they were with at one time which now they're taking their problems out on us innocent good men that would really know how to treat a good woman with a lot of love and respect. So now they really think that every man out there aren't good enough for them at all which makes them very sad and pathetic altogether now. God forbid trying to start a conversation with a woman that we would really like to meet which she will curse at us for no reason at all since i had this happened to me already. A friend that i know had the very same thing happened to him as well which makes these women so very scary to meet nowadays. The good old fashioned women of years ago were certainly nothing at all like the women of today are since the women in those days really did put these women today to real shame as well.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 6 months ago

      I am awaiting the article 10 things woman can do better! Because, I could quickly right one for you. I am also capable of admitting men's faults. Both genders have huge issues.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 6 months ago

      Who else is surprised how Elaine has deliberately avoided comments that don't fit her narrative. The key to solving the problem is admitting your faults. After a date, while I may think woman are terrible (not all went bad in fact they almost all went well before I started dating internet chicks - something I will likely stop doing now given it's awful success. Though again, finding chicks is hard off the internet because you don't want to be accused for sexual assault or labeled a creep) -I do often look at what I can improve for next time often it's just being more fun and the dates where we did multiple locations and an activity went well. I guess girls don't realize the work and stress that goes into planning such a night and having to be on. Sometimes, we kind of want to be like a girl and just sit back and enjoy the night without having to plan everything. In the future, I know not to make this mistake again but at the same time it doesn't motivate me to want to date when I am responsible for being her entertainment for the evening rather than just someone she wants to get to know.

      Is Elaine incapable of this or is this merely a broader problem among woman.

      If your starting premise is woman are perfect than you might want to look in the mirror regarding who the problem is.

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      Ray79 6 months ago

      I do all this stuff. planning dates, being well dressed, inviting, leading, accepting rejection.. women just don't want average looking guys or guy who have normal life (a decent job, some friends and hobbies) they want "amazing" guys, extra social, great looking.. at the end it's an unworthy invest in time and energy. I'm 37 yo and I stopped looking at women anymore, I read a lot everywhere to avoid looking at them, I watch videos about science, war and SF movies, I avoid any "romance" thing and concentrate on my career, health and friends.

      unfortunately, dating is dead because of women's hypergamy.

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      Steven B. 6 months ago

      Elaine look into the MGTOW movement on YouTube, (MGTOW) Men Go Their Own Way. Yes many men are now shunning women and literally blocking them out. It's getting serious out there in the dating scene and personally I don't like it. Not sure where things will go 5, 10, 20 yrs down the line for couples and the dating and marriage scene. Guess we'll have to wait n see.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 6 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Dear "I'm still young..& single;"

      The closest thing to advice I can give is for you to date older guys (not knowing your age), because it seems that the men of younger generations have little or no intention on building a relationship with women (MGTOW). At least that is the feel I'm getting from the majority of the responses here.

      I can't even suggest that you try dating a different race because this nonsense has seemed to cross those lines. I have a 30 y/o daughter and I feel for her because this behavior is all a bit normal for her. I wish I could help...

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      I'm still young..& single 6 months ago

      Help! I'm experience every bit of what your saying and have been for a couple of years. I get tons (not to brag) of compliments like "I want to hang out with you!" But it's been 2 years since any of them have actually been a formal "will you go on a date with me?" And less than a handful of times in the last 10 years that I've been asked this way. Note-I'm talking about request to "hangout" for the first time, so there's not even a precedent set yet. Any advise on how to introduce that I require (out of a self respect and tradional belief) a formal request to take me on a date?

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      Jay 6 months ago

      And why would they? Attractive men don't have to do anything to get sex but show up. Why would less attractive men put any effort into trying to be involved with these women who have already had double and triple digit one night stands with guys for whom they didn't even know their names?

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      Jay 6 months ago

      The very sad thing today is that the women in the past really did put the women of today to real shame altogether.