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Dating: 10 Things Men Don’t Do Anymore

Updated on June 20, 2016
Elaine Flowers profile image

Elaine Flowers is the co-author of "So... How Was Your Date? Dating Chronicles Of Single Men and Women" and the author of five other titles.

Dating Frustrations

I haven’t done a lot of dating recently but I have done my fair share over the years. So, at the risk of sounding frustrated by today’s dating scene, I am going to go there. I know I share the sentiments of many women, especially those women who have had the fortunate experience, like myself, of being treated well by men. When you’ve been treated well, you just can’t accept the BS that goes on with today’s dating scene. Things that were once taken for granted are now just memories and sometimes those things are all together forgotten because the nonsense seems to be the status quo.

Here is a countdown of things men don't bother with anymore:

#10 Men don’t ask women on dates anymore

They’re called “Meet Ups” now. WTH? I understand that since the emergence of online dating, that meeting a new person in a public place is necessary under those circumstances. No problem there. But what has happened is it has taken the place of real dating. In those instances where two people know each other the guys are requesting to “meet” the woman at a location to “hang out” as opposed to actually picking her up to take her out.

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#9 Men don’t ask women out in advance anymore

It’s Tuesday night and Sam rings Stephanie to catch up with her. After exchanging pleasantries for a moment, he gets to the point of his call: “There’s a new movie coming out this weekend. Would you like to check it out on Saturday?” By Friday, Steven is checking in to confirm things and then… Oh, wait—that’s 1984, not 2014. Now when a guy does actually ask a girl out, there’s barely enough time for her to do the necessary date-prep work.

Source

#8 Men don’t take charge of dating plans anymore

There are few things more frustrating than when you finally decide to go out with a guy for dinner and he leaves all of the decisions of where to eat up to you. Not only is he showing his lack of real interest in showing you a good time, he’s running the risk of you going over his budget for the evening. Besides, women love it when a man takes charge but at the same time is open to her opinion.

#7 Men don’t show up at your door with a gift/token anymore

I don’t know when this stopped but I know it was a long time ago. Way back when, a guy would arrive to pick up his date holding something as simple as a single flower, teddy bear, or a book that she said she wanted to read. Wow… I don’t know if anyone does that anymore.

#6 Men don’t work at impressing anymore

Something happened with the media advancement of today’s age and the need to impress women. Men now seem to be under the assumption that women are supposed to impress them. I’m sure there are many places to point the finger but women have been tricked into thinking that they are supposed to be working at the pleasure of men in the virtual world and in real life. What happened to men working to prove that they are worthy and capable of being with a woman? Something is definitely wrong here.

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#5 Men don’t give meaningful compliments anymore

Men whistling or giving a catcall when a woman walks down the street is nothing new. But that’s not what I’m talking about here. I’m referring to men ONLY taking notice of a woman’s physical attributes. And I’m not referring to locker room jargon, either. I’m talking about a man extending this nonsense onto the woman and trying to pass it off as compliments.

#4 Men don’t ask women to dance anymore

You’re at a club or even a private party and unlike back in the day when there were couples, there are groups of women on the dance floor and men standing on the sidelines either ogling them or ignoring them all together. Now if a woman doesn’t ask a man to dance, she’s stuck with not dancing at all or only getting off the wall to join in on a line dance.

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#3 Men don’t buy drinks anymore

Not only are women not being asked to dance, men don’t offer to buy a woman a drink anymore. However, they have no problem taking up her time talking while sipping on theirs.

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#2 Men don’t make phone calls anymore

I am all about modern technology but not to the chagrin of authentic communication. Texting is not a way to get to know someone. Texting is for, “I’m on my way,” “I’m running late,” not for, “What kind of work do you do?” and “Tell me about yourself.” Everyone being short on time and wanting to do things quickly has reduced us to this format of interaction and it just doesn’t work.

#1 Men don’t accept rejection anymore

I don’t know if men just don’t know how to take it or they’ve become more sensitive than they used to be, but they seem to be terrified of rejection. And this is the reason they don’t do the things listed here anymore. There is no middle ground—you know the man who puts in the effort and work to get the woman. Instead, they either don’t try at all or they don’t take ‘no’ for an answer.

Why Don't They?

The main reason that all of these things don’t happen anymore is because women, at large, stopped requiring them. We’ve turned men into lazy daters. You could argue that a guy is just not interested when he takes the short cuts, but I don’t think that’s it. Even when he’s genuinely interested, he doesn’t have to call—he can text; he doesn’t have to take a woman on a real date—today’s woman is fine with the meet-up; he doesn’t have to take notice of her brains and compassion—they go unnoticed because of her blossoming cleavage and big behind. I have always declared to be a romantic while making it very clear, however, that I am not a hopeless one, but I really wish we could just go back.

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    • profile image

      catrina 2 years ago

      Say it again girl....don't eveb get me started. I could add a few more to this list...think these areba few of the reasons women are staying single longer. Most of us can do without this nonsense

    • profile image

      Galen L. 2 years ago

      I am aware that this is not directed at all men, but a lot of women in today's society make it practically impossible to approach them. #3 will be an example for me:

      As a man who rarely drinks, I find it offensive for a grown woman in a bar to expect me to buy her a drink just for conversing. As a gentlemen, I will offer to buy her one; but when your demeanor comes across as if it's expected, that's a turn off. If I'm approaching in a respectful manner, introduce myself, and inquire to get acquainted...doesn't require I purchase a drink or that I'm acting thirsty. I'm just being respectful. Now if I offer to purchase a beverage, that is simply because I wish too.

    • profile image

      catrina 2 years ago

      Galen G id be interested in hearing how we make it "impossible" for men to approach us... inquiring minds want to know???

    • profile image

      catrina 2 years ago

      I also do not believe many of us expect it but as you said its the gentlemanlynthing to do if you want to sit and consume my evening...and especially if you have one in your hand.:)

    • profile image

      Galen L. 2 years ago

      It's the presentation. As with men who come across as to much, women do the same. What man do you think will approach you when your twisting your face, or one of your girl posse is mean mugging when he's attempting to approach you? As a lot of women have forgotten, we men are very visual. A real man looks for a woman who seems inviting and approachable, not casting a dark aura in a dimly lit room. A smile & politeness can get you a long way, men are more attentive in a positive engagement...you may even get that drink.

      Realize that I am using the terms man/men, not boys. Same species, different breed.

    • profile image

      Hendrk 2 years ago

      As a man, I agree with most of the article...however, the article seems to imply that a man should do all of these things just because he is interested in a woman? Come on now, what's in it for him? Actually, women are MORE lazy than men. It would be nice to see if you could produce an equal list of the things woman don't do in dating to mirror your man-list...I won't hold my breathe though...lol.

    • profile image

      PMARTIN 2 years ago

      From a man's point of view--Its not being lazy, its because women constantly preach equality and if its equal then why treat her differently. Do want to compete with us or us be the man and take the lead? You all are simply to confusing. If we don't call--youre mad, if we call but it's a bad day--youre nasty. When we brought gifts, you and your girlfriends judge as to its quality. As for compliments..you know as well as I do, if a compliment come from the wrong person, you're annoyed and usually react or you read way to much into the remark and...get mad. As for men not handling rejection? Maybe that's why all the other points arent occurring any more because men are tired of games leading to rejection. If you say men are maybe too sensitive..remember all the talk of women wanted men to be more sensitive??? I think its safe to say, the reason men don't these things anymore is women are simply to confusing to deal with. Remember this the next time you read tactics from a womens mag or the girls are talking about "testing schemes". Just making it worse.

    • diana1000 profile image

      Diana Harvey 2 years ago from Philippines

      Elaine good article but sad to say that has long gone out the window and who is to blame but women themselves.

      I agree completely with PMARTIN's comments.

      The women or most of them wanted equal rights and equal pay so they can't pick to have everything both ways.

      As to approaching a woman on a dance floor ha,ha a man would never be sure if she is going to scream sexual harassment at him so you can't blame him.

      Yes most younger women today would scoff at a single flower being given as I gesture to them know they want an expensive gift and then the chances are after having accepted the gift "slap the guy and say you think this will get you into my bed" and then throw him out but of course keep the gift.

      Yes I am a women but I feel very sorry for men trying to work out most of these very confused women today.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      Hendrick,

      Thanks for the article idea! Stay tuned… :-)

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      Mr. Meanie 2 years ago

      Dating expectations have been extremely lopsided in the woman's favor, but that's changing... The thought that a woman is the only one who deserves these things, simply because of her gender? Sexism at its finest.

      Woman are almost never expected to do any or the things listed in this article, and -surprise- many modern men don't want lazy daters, either! You'll have to forgive me if I don't have much sympathy for your frustrations.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      Mr. Meanie,

      I am a proud sexist if it mean clear and defined gender roles. And I have no problem staying in my place or submitting to a man worth submitting to. I love a man who takes charge and leads (with a kind heart and words). There are some women who feel differently and your comment would be better suited for them. So you don't need my forgiveness and I don't need your sympathy.

    • profile image

      Seriously Speaking 2 years ago

      Much more women had class years ago, and were certainly better educated since they did not play head games like most of them do today.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      Dear John,

      Sounds like you've had a lot of bad experiences with women. That's unfortunate. There are plenty of women who don't fall into the category you've mentioned. Lumping them all in together is a bad idea and I tell women who say all men are dogs, the same thing. I hope you find someone who changes your opinion.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      Dear Seriously,

      Thanks for the comment. I absolutely agree with you and plan to write a Hub mirroring this one on the things that women no longer do. Women no longer act like ladies; women no longer wait on men to make the first move…

      I'm sure there are more things to add to this list. Do you have any input on the things that women don't do anymore?

    • profile image

      mikegreg 2 years ago

      #10 - Agree. Once they know each other, the man should be picking the woman up and take her out on a regular date. Or the woman could pick the man up. IMO, a meetup is for the first time, or until some level of trust is established.

      #9 - Agree. There should be at least 3 days notice given on a date.

      #8 - Agreed. But, sometimes us guys get tired of making all the plans. Why don't the gals do some of the planning?

      #7 - Disagree. I once tried giving flowers to a former spouse for no special reason. She instantly got suspicious and thought the gift was a sign of guilt on my part.

      #6 - Agree.

      #5 - Agree. If I'm dating a woman who does or says something worth a compliment, I let her know.

      #4 - Agree. If a guy takes a gal to a place where there is dancing, he should at least ask her for one dance.

      #3 - Agree. You go to a bar, offer a lady a drink.

      #2 - Agree. I don't like texting either.

      #1 - Agree. No one likes to be rejected.

      Why don't they? Women have turned dating into some kind of high stakes poker game. I've been married for 12 years. My wife didn't play games when we dated.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for posting a comment, Mike!

      I, too, have a girlfriend whose husband sent her flowers after he'd cheated so the mere mention of flowers for her puts her in a bad mood. But when picking a woman up for a date, it doesn't have to be flowers. If a woman is agreeing to go out with a guy, him giving her an "I'm trying to impress you" token shouldn't be a problem.

      I think a lot of the problem with this subject is women. The desperation to have a man has made men lazy. So, I don't totally blame them.

      I wish there were more guys like you to go around… Hat's off to your wife!

    • profile image

      PeterJ 2 years ago

      There it is again....its all about the man impressing the woman, women have no obligation to impress, they feel that men should just be happy that a woman has agreed to date them...nobody ever asks a woman what she got her boyfriend for Valentine's Day, birthday or anniversary? Its always about what the man does for the woman!!

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      PeterJ,

      Are you suggesting that society should rid itself of gender roles? Women do a lot of things to get the attention of men (or impress them, to use your words). Because men are visual, women are constantly making aesthetic enhancements to become the object a man's affection.

    • profile image

      mikegreg 2 years ago

      Read the book "Men on Strike" by Helen Smith. You might find some answers there.

    • dashingscorpio profile image

      dashingscorpio 2 years ago

      I believe most of the "changes" you mentioned are the result of changes many women have made over the past few decades. One group wants to retain the era of being "special" or placed on a pedestal purely based upon their gender and another group wants to "show men" they are "equal" to them in every area of life. (dating, sexual behavior, and financially).

      I'm a big fan of the "Be Yourself" persona on dates. Women should applaud if they meet a guy who isn't going to pull a "bait & switch" on her. (Bending over backwards to impress her to win her over and then afterwards revealing his "authentic self". No games means be yourself. Any man who is not a "romantic" shouldn't pretend to be one.

      Personally speaking even back in the 80s I never bought women drinks in a club and if I felt like was "taking up her time" I moved on. Today more men are looking for women who illustrate (mutual) interest.

      I do recall instances where women rejected men for dances and (chose) to dance with their group of girlfriends all night long. I've also seen women patting their feet, snapping their fingers, and bobbing their heads to the music only to shoot down a guy that asks them to dance.

      A dance is not a marriage proposal! :)

      Maybe in the 1950s or early 1960s was the last time a man automatically brought gifts/flowers or candy to a woman prior to leaving her house for a date.

      A lot of women insist on paying "their own way" which in their eyes keeps them from feeling "obligated" or beholden to a man. I knew of one woman who told me the first thing she does when she meets a man is email him her LinkedIn page. I'm not sure when it was that some women felt compelled to "compete" with men. Some women are even incline to announce to the world; "I don't NEED a man" or others have said: "All men are dogs!" I've personally have observed opening a door for a woman and watch her walk through without bothering to say; "Thank you". I'm certain if I had said something she would have told me: 'You didn't have to." or "I never asked you to do so."

      And of course there has always been the "nice guys" finish last rule where many women chase after the "bad boys" and then lump all the "nice guys" into their "friend zone". Some women go through a "phase" and others just love "dogs" and ignore the fact they choose them. I saw one woman on a dating show proclaim: "I like my man to have a little (thug) in him." Dating thugs is never going to make them happy long-term. In fact a lot of women blame all men for their unhappiness or for their lack of being married.

      And yet every year in the U.S. over 2.3 million weddings take place. Go to any mall, grocery store, park, beach, movie theatre, or church and you will see women and men of all shapes, sizes, colors, and various levels of attractiveness who have a mate or spouse! How is this even possible?

      There are some men who are "women haters" and there are some women who are "men haters". Whatever we tend to focus on we find. Everyone has bad dating or relationship experiences. However the sign of maturity is when one acknowledges there are over 7 Billion people on the planet and everyone is an "individual". Instead I see a lot of women and men who insist on using 'gender shortcuts" to lump everyone of that sex in the same category. To often today men and women approach each other as combatants. There's an awful lot of blame and animosity out there.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      Wow Dashing,

      Sounds like I hit a nerve… sorry?

      Honestly, with every observation, there are always exceptions. And it is obvious you and I are from two different eras, for sure. I don't doubt anything you say here because I have witnessed some of these things myself. The first time I went out for a girl's night with some friends considerably younger than me, and I saw them race to the dance floor together when an Usher song came on. I was in shock. I would never consider going out to the dance floor without a partner, unless it was a line dance. In recent years I was in a nightclub with my adult daughter (it was my kind of spot where the men bought drinks and asked you to dance) and a guy came up to her, asking her to dance and she was totally uncomfortable with it. I felt sorry for her that she didn't know what it looked like to have a guy behave as a gentleman. Not that her generation of women are mistreated because guys don't ask them to dance, but the women have no idea of what chivalry looks like in the traditional sense.

      With that said, I understand your view but please refer back to the title and purpose of this post and understand that I am talking about what men NO LONGER do. Whether they should or shouldn't, is a conversation we can have later :-).

    • dashingscorpio profile image

      dashingscorpio 2 years ago

      Hit a nerve? LOL! Not likely!

      I'm just probably a little more analytical about relationships than most people. You're probably right about us being from different eras. I'm a "baby boomer" who has witnessed the "evolution" of dating and relationship over the course of a few decades. :)

      I realized what the title of this hub is but you also wrote another one that did not allow for comments to be posted. Therefore I guess I included my thoughts about it on this one as well.

      I honestly believe men have changed in large measure as a (reaction) to the changes women have made since the dawning of the "sexual revolution", "feminism", and sexual harassment became mainstream news. Both men and women have different "expectations" of one another today especially when compared to the 1960s and earlier eras.

      Lastly in my personal opinion a lot of "chivalry" was rooted in sexism. Some men treated women like they were (children) and not equal adults. They really viewed them as "the weaker sex" that required being taken care of.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      Yes, analytical for sure. I appreciate how you express yourself and break it on down :-)

      As for the other post, that was an oversight (omitting the comments section) and has been added.

      So, you see chivalry as sexism? That's interesting. Even though I'm pretty much independent (so to speak), I'm not on the feminism bandwagon professing to be equal to men. I mean, we're equal as human beings, but there are many things that differentiate the two sexes. There are plenty things that women cannot do, that men can and vice versa. I am not trying to think, behave or operate like a man and I'm not interested in the man who wants to think, behave or operate like a woman. I don't think a man has to belittle a woman in order act in a chivalrous manner.

    • profile image

      Nemo the Nihilist 2 years ago

      I liked your article Ms. Flowers, but like your observations, the REASONS men don't act like gentlemen anymore is painful obvious when you look at it from a political and economical point-of-view.

      You do realize that one reason men don't do these ten gentlemanly acts anymore is directly related to negative feminism. Men have been scared from being assertive and aggressive on the dating scene because they have heard so many horror stories of women lashing back, calling men "rapists" and "pigs" and "creepers" and even getting them arrested. If there is one thing a man loves more than women and sex, it's his reputation and his freedom. They will do everything to avoid those titles and iron bars, even if it means avoiding women.

      As a side note: don't be fooled; all class X felonies are meant to punish men, not women. Don't believe me? Do a little research on Lena Dunham. Technically, she has committed many class X felonies, including sexual abuse of a child, yet she walks around freely.

      Back to the main subject: it's not just bad feminism at play. The other reason why men don't do these gentlemanly things is directly link to the Great Recession. In short, the next generation of men, the millennials, got their fiances shafted and many are underemployed. That and add a crippling college debt as a cherry on top, and millennial men literally have no money left over to spend on dates.

      Worst, what jobs that have been created over the past seven years have been serving jobs inclusively filled by women. Again its not a fault on the female gender. That's just how the U.S. labor force has evolved: to provide equal work for men and women, service work makes it an easy transition. I know the equal pay for the genders isn't there yet, but I guarantee you in another seven years, women will be making as much, if not more, than men.

      In conclusion, your article on the ten gentlemanly things that men don't do anymore is honestly a lamentation of the loss of traditional 1950s approach to dating: men were superior to women in work and fiances, so men equalize this imbalance by making the woman feel "special", i.e. spending ridiculous amounts of money on her needs. This tradition is not possible by 21st century standards. Today, men and women are incredibly close to being equal in work and fiances, and thus, where there is balance, there is no superiority. No "special" treatment. Just is the curse of feminism I suppose.

      I'm glad I found my wife so early. Not only is she the breadwinner, her pay leaves me more time to stay at home and cook for both of us. I will be forever baffled as to why women wanted to leave the kitchen; it's the best smelling room in the house. Plus the outside world smells like shit.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      Dear Nemo the Nihilist,

      Thanks for your comment.

      Out of the “10 Things” listed, there are only 2 that involve money: the date, and the drink. But yet, your focus is mainly on the men of today having less money, in comparison to women, than they did years ago. Oh yes, and that thing about not wanting to be labeled as a creep or be accused of rape. I am open to the male perspective on this subject and I value that perspective, but the points you make I have to disagree with.

      Times have changed and there are a lot of variables that have caused men to be lazy when it comes to winning the hearts of women. The suggestion of the article is not for a man to do these special things for every woman that he comes across, but to work at winning the affections of the one he’s interested in. It’s as if men have no clue how to do those things anymore and women, out of desperation, accept the poor effort because frankly, they’re not used to anything better.

      Your posted comment, in fact, supports “#1 Men don’t accept rejection anymore” and I say that because it sounds like men are afraid they don’t have enough money and they’re afraid of being called a creep, based on what you write. That sounds like fear of rejection wrapped up in an excuse.

      Since you’re married, presumably happily, you don’t have to concern yourself with making efforts towards women. But, if you have daughters or other single women in your life that you care about, I hope you’re not laying this ideology on them.

    • profile image

      mikegreg 2 years ago

      Perhaps another explanation of why men are lazy when it comes to winning the hearts of women is that there is a growing perception among men in their 20's and 30's that marriage is not a good deal for men. The divorce rate is somewhere between 50 and 70%. Men who grew up in the 70's, 80's, and 90's saw what happened to their fathers when the family got split up as a result of a divorce. If a man gets divorced, he could be liable for alimony and child support. Even if the man makes the child support payments, he might only see his children once every two weeks. If he loses the house in a divorce, he has to downgrade to a lower standard of living. Men who don't want to get married have this perception that there's too much potential cost and not enough benefit to being married. If a man doesn't want to get married, why would he put out a lot of effort, time, and money to win the heart of a woman?

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      Mikegreg,

      So what I hear you saying is that men are not really lazy, they're just not interested enough in women to make grand gestures to earn their affections. Right? Well, that makes more sense than anything I've heard thus far from men. I guess that's the same reason women are becoming less and less interested in marriage as well. The fear of the down sides of love. Thanks for your comment!

    • profile image

      mikegreg 2 years ago

      I don't think it's a case of being lazy. Maybe it's disinterest, for a variety of reasons, one of which is the perception that there's too much cost and not enough benefit in getting married.

    • profile image

      ToTheStars1 2 years ago

      Not really. Effort, regardless of how much effort, time and emotion you put into pursuing women it does not translate into dating success.

      I get looks from women everyday. Women who are 18-45 seem to notice me in a positive manner as I'm always being checked-out and smiled at by attractive young women and what not. Thing is, women want the attention, nothing more.

      I approach those ladies and I always got rejected. I have good body language and posture, I take 2 showers a day, I brush my teeth 3 times a day, I always shave my face daily. And yet I was always shot down by women in my league and below or above.

      I'm not attractive. At all. Its just a matter of having much more women than men around and the attention they get is few. There are and there'll always be hot men - the type of men women want - but most of those tend to be douchebags because they can use women,so women turn to average men to get their ego go up.

      I'm 25 years old. I haven't had a girlfriend ever since I was 18. Haven't gone on date ever since my last girlfriend dumped me.

      First I would usually go after the women I was attracted to. I tried to impress them and they'd enjoy the attention but I got nowhere with them. Obviously a woman isn't obliged to have sex with a man or to date him despite of his efforts, yet you seem to believe that acts of high interest from the side of men is going to make women attracted or in love with the men who do it.

      Not so. I have paintings from the women I was attracted to, women I painted. I have done a lot of stuff and I've sincerely impressed women. The problem is that women aren't sexually turned on by this kind of stuff. Women are as visual as men are, probably more, for they always select the tall, handsome and v-shaped(torso) guy for hooking-up and for relationships, if the high-quality man is relationship-minded.

      I tried going for women who were less attractive and more humble and wouldn't you know? They appreciated the attention, but it stopped there, lol.

      From what I've observed, women are only interested in handsome men until a certain age, say mid-20s to late 20s, then they want the guys with money.

      So, its been that many years since I've last been near a woman and I gotta say that my life has been pretty sweet since then. No dramas, no money being wasted on someone I'm never going to sleep with/date, no time wasted on impressing a woman, and I don't have to worry with stds, unwanted pregnancies and alimony and what not.

      On occasion I do get the odd sexual frustration pang, but porn quickly solves that and I'm back to making bank.

      I don't even really notice women I see on the bus and on the train in spite of how attractive they are. Really, I'm not exactly a validation-machine and I have better things to do than to go ''damn, a beautiful women, I must approach her and make her feel like a queen.''

      Nowadays its more like, I rarely take my eyes from my book or iphone and still I notice women fishing for attention.

      Men aren't lazy. We just came to the conclusion that its a waste of our resources, time and money to get involved with women.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      ToTheStars,

      Sounds like you've given up on women. If that's true, what's the alternative? Be careful with that pornography for it will most likely give you a distorted view of love and relationships. Not every woman is going to be right for you so those women who aren't interested are doing you a favor by not engaging and wasting your time. Just because you didn't get the results you were hoping for with a woman doesn't mean it was a failure. There's always something to learn. Do your best not to take it so personally.

      Men are very visual and it sounds like you're making the mistake of thinking that women are also visual. This isn't true, for the most part. Men want a beautiful woman and women want security. And what security equates to is a confident man who has the ability to handle the needs of a woman. We don't care nearly as much about looks as you obviously think. Not only that, a lot of women like a man they can 'fix up'. I'm sure you've seen examples of some not so attractive men who get the attention of a lot of females. It's the confidence and the ability (or even the presumed ability) to provide and protect.

      You're young so there will be a lot of opportunities for you to meet and attract plenty of great young ladies. At this age (25) don't take things so seriously. Have fun. Find your confidence within and it won't matter to you if you extend some chivalrous acts and a woman turns you down. If you're truly interested in a particular woman, try again. Sometimes women are slow to warm up. Good luck to you!

    • profile image

      CountingStars1 2 years ago

      I have my female friends to interact with and they satisfy any emotional needs I have. I am carefully to select only as friends women I'm not attracted to and I make sure they have boyfriends so that things don't become complicated and these guys trust me with their ladies.

      Pornography doesn't distort how I see love and relationships. I find porn to be a quick way to get rid of my sex drive and as a man who've returned to college and I'm taking a bachelor's degree, I must say that college is filled with very attractive women. Even the average and below-average women can be considered attractive.

      Since I am not interested in pursuing women like my classmates are doing - either feeding egos or getting shot down - I welcome porn as a way to kill my sexual attraction for those women and to be free of sexual desire. It works. Its like eating vegetables. Many might not enjoy eating vegetables but they are necessary.

      Relationships, I find them to be a place of weakness for men. Lets be honest. The vast majority of women are being hit on by men on a daily basis. There's bound to be attractive men within those who hit on the women, and even if they don't hit on the women I've never seen a woman be shy enough to not approach a man who is handsome.

      Meaning that the chances of me having to work immensily to start a relationship and to maintain a relationship are quite high, and chances would be that I would be cheated on many times.

      I find human beings tend to do what they can, if they can do it. Casanovas sleep with countless women because they can and women can very easily cheat on the men they are with. I already have a job and I go to college at the same time. I don't need any more aggravation, lol.

      I could go for a woman who is less attractive than me. But that would be unfair for the lady in question and I doubt she'd stay with me if some other guy with better looks or with more money was to show interest in her.

      '' Not every woman is going to be right for you so those women who aren't interested are doing you a favor by not engaging and wasting your time. ''

      True enough. Still, one thing is to be rejected by a woman who could be considered a young Angelina Angelina. I would completely understand why I was rejected and it wouldn't bother me.

      Another thing is to be rejected by women who are in your league or below.

      When that happens you begin to analyze your life and how men and women operate around you and you come to realize that attractive women are the most lonely because the men who share their looks find average or above average(yet, not beautiful) much easier to sleep with, which means that average women and below average women are going to reject the men who are not handsome or tall, for a night/attempt to build a relationship with the Armani Model.

      Many men - if not most - come to terms with this and we accept it and move on with our lives to find something else to do,.

      ''There's always something to learn. Do your best not to take it so personally.''

      It doesn't bother me. When I was 18, yeah it would leave a sting. Now I'm mostly indifferent to any idea or possibility of hooking-up or having a relationship with a woman. I'm satisfied with how things are now. I also see how much average men have to work hard to keep their ladies and I want nothing to do with that.

      ''Men are very visual and it sounds like you're making the mistake of thinking that women are also visual.''

      Men are willing to sleep with anyone. I've seen good-looking, well-built and tall with visible displays of wealth go after women who were very much on the unhealthy side of the whole weight matter. When I look at couples I observe that the men are usually more attractive than the women or that the men is much taller than them.

      I respectfully disagree. Women are far more visual than men are. When I was 21 I got a job as a janitor in a model's agency. I befriended quite a bit of male models and they would take me places with them. I would look with my jaw falling on my lap how the vast majority of the women would throw themselves at these guys, married women, women with children, even women who had their partners right next to them.

      It made me consider my life choices. Why was I wasting time and money and thinking of ways to make the ladies feel in a certain way about me when these guys would just show up and get everyone they wanted and more.

      I observe the same halo effect in college. There are far, far more women than men as students but the majority of the men don't have girlfriends or hook-ups. These young men aren't hideous and they aren't chasing after women who are far above them.

      The issue for these guys is that the few hot men are being shared between the vast majority of the women and the women who don't engage in this behavior are either religious or have boyfriends they met in high school.

      Women don't care much about a man's college education or how well-employed where it concerns sexual attraction - and sexual attraction is key. I've met men who had been without work for years and years, or guys who never bothered to get a job and they had relationships or even lived with women who were doctors and engineers and other high-powered careers.

      Women nowadays select men for their looks, height, build and capacity to father beautiful children. Women don't really need most of us(men) anymore.

      ''And what security equates to is a confident man who has the ability to handle the needs of a woman. We don't care nearly as much about looks as you obviously think. ''

      Confidence is attractive in a man who has great-looks. In someone else it just makes the guy look like he's living in one illusion or that he's a jersie shore guy without the muscles. I'm highly confident, I'm highly social, I make every laugh and I'm still dateless.

      I know guys who barely have a personality and they never lack for female company. To women who are 18-28 what matters is how good-looking you are. True, as a woman ages a man's looks begin to lose its importance but then his earning potential is what comes into play and that's only because women begin to want to get married and to have children.

      I'm not interested in being a provider or a fallout guy. And if I wasn't good enough when the lady was 18, or 22, or 25 then I'm not good enough as she ages and can't attract the local Brad Pitt anymore. This is not related to bitterness or what may, its just the logical step to take.

      You live most of your young adult life without female companionship, you reckon you can live the rest of your life in a functional and satisfiying manner without women - its already happening in mass in Japan. Won't take long for it to take hold of Europe and America.

      Returning to the matter of looks. I did go to college when I was 18 and I finished a bachelors. I've returned to it for another and I've interacted with many young people. I remember going to several dinner parties and we'd always have far more women than men. In one dinner we had 40 girls and 7 guys.

      Two of the guys were 6'2'' with broad shoulders, Tom cruise faces, perfect teeth and that perfect surfer tan. They were so drunk they could be mistaken for the great gatsby characters. All of the women were hovering around them, doing whatever the guys wanted. The rest of the guys had their eyes glued on the tv because they were feeling left out and ignored(which they were lol).

      A man's personality is useless if he's not hot, so its pointless to talk to women if you aren't a hot man.

      ''m sure you've seen examples of some not so attractive men who get the attention of a lot of females. It's the confidence and the ability (or even the presumed ability) to provide and protect.''

      Never seen them being able to convert that attention ont sex or relationships. Women already have their male friends to satisfy their emoitonal needs and hot guys for the sexual ones.

      Thank you and good luck to you too. But I'm never going to pursue women again. I'm in a really good place in my life and I don't need dramas, nor problems nor expenses. I'll leave that sort of thing for the guys who are still addicted to female attention.

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      CountingStars1 2 years ago

      Regarding attractive women being more lonely than the women who aren't as attractive - indeed, but they'd rather be single and dateless than to be near men who don't fulfill their requirements, which I completely understand and agree with.

      ''Men want a beautiful woman and women want security.''

      Men want any woman who'll have them. Believe me, men aren't picky at all. Top quality men will want only beautiful women as their girlfriends, that much is true. Women aren't concerned with financial security. I have money. I have more money than most guys who go to college and I have no problem in spending money.

      Women see how generous I am with my friends when it comes to money but they won't go out with me and yet I see broke guys who have so much female attention.

      This is explained in two ways:

      Women are only attracted to looks, although there are women who are willing to be in a relationship with a man if he provides $, I've had very attractive women offer that option to me but I am highly against using a woman's sexuality in exchange of my money. The only lady I'll spend money on is the lady who spent money and time on me as I was growing up - my mother.

      (although I did spend money on women when I was still dating but I was still being shunned for the broke Brad Pitt lol).

      And the second way to explain it is that there are far more women going to college than there are men and that eventually - if not now already -women are going to earn a lot more money than men and then they will only select the Hyden Christensens as their boyfriends, husbands, or hook-ups.

      Oh, and beautiful women tend to belong to rich families. That's how many of these rich guys with average looks work.They become wealthy, they marry a beautiful woman and they have beautiful daughters.

      I have this girl in my class, she's 19 and she's far, far more wealthy than any of the other students. She's also quite beautiful and very charming. She only goes for very handsome and rich men. How can a guy compete with that? Can't lol.

      ''Not only that, a lot of women like a man they can 'fix up'.''

      You mean men who have potential but are throwing it away by not caring about their future? Yeah, I see that happening. Good-looking men who play video games all day and smoke pot. Not the same happens to the men who do the same but who aren't handsome.

      ''You're young so there will be a lot of opportunities for you to meet and attract plenty of great young ladies. ''

      I've met hundreds of women already. Many other men have done the same. I've met women of different heights, builds, races, nationalities and religions but the results were still the same. Women want to have fun and then they want a guy to shackle-up with who is willing to support them. I'm not interested in the least on that last part, and I'm not fun.

      Aka, I am not the drunken hook-up they have when they are 18-28 lol. I do know of guys who are in their mid-30s and forties who are in a good position, they have good careers and are making bank, but those guys have also given up on women.

      Not that women aren't ''interested'' in them. These guys are simply not interested in being the future victims of child-support and alimony and if that's the only thing in my future if I keep on going after women, then I'd rather end up alone, lol.

      ''At this age (25) don't take things so seriously. Have fun. ''

      I don't. I spend a lot of time with my friends and I don't concern myself with finding a girlfriend. If a woman is attracted to me, she'll approach me or ask me out, due to the fact that it never happened, I know women aren't attracted to me(looks, glances, smiles, playing with their hair doesn't count; they do it for free male attention) and I don't bother with anything at all besides my education and making bank so that I can be financial independent(of course all of my resources and money will only be spent on me and on my parents).

      ''nd your confidence within and it won't matter to you if you extend some chivalrous acts and a woman turns you down. ''

      My confidence is pretty high. I am not concerned if a woman turns me down and I would do it again if it meant eventually finding a woman who'd say yes, but when you approach 100 women who aren't good-looking at all, and there's nothing wrong with how you look, act or talk, then you learn that it doesn't make sense to continue doing the same, and to be honest even if a woman said 'yes' I think I'm too used to being told no that I would seriously think there was something wrong with the lady who said yes.

      ''If you're truly interested in a particular woman, try again. Sometimes women are slow to warm up. ''

      The vast majority of women have guys competing for them. That's why you never see a woman walk with her eyes set straight ahead, she's always looking at her phone to read the numerous text messages her suitors are texting her. What's the point of talking to women when there's always someone who is better-looking, taller, or richer out there who wants them?

      '' Sometimes women are slow to warm up.''

      If that was so there wouldn't be one-night stands and friendships with beneficts. Women know within a few seconds of meeting a man if he's someone they can see themselves have physical intimacy with and women can spend an entire life spending time with a guy and not find him attractive in the least.

      That's why when I was in my last year of pursuing women I would talk to a woman for one hour or so and if nothing came out of it(a date/sexual intimacy) I would move on and never talk to her again.

      I remember how angry this young lady was when I stopped talking to her. First of all, I knew she had a boyfriend and she never mentioned him, second, if I see that I have no chance of having sex with her, what would be the point of continuing to provide her with validation and ego-boosts?

      Soon after I came to learn that women physically throw themselves at the men they are attracted to moments after meeting these guys. I did spend 6 months dating one lady who wasn't anything special in looks nor personality and I never had sex with her, only to be dumped by her for a guy who was only interested in a one-night stand.

      Looks are everything to women nowadays.

      Have a good day :D

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      Beenburned 2 years ago

      I'm 59, on my second marriage, to a wonderful woman from a foreign country. I had to go through a lot rejections, bad relationships, and one divorce before I got up the courage to find a foreign wife. I'm glad I did. American women are so screwed up. IMO, it's mainly due to women's liberation. Women in the U.S. are raised to be princesses and they expect to be treated like princesses all through their lives. A lot of men simply cannot measure up to them. The women are favored through grade school and high school, all because we've had 50 years of so of women's liberation that demands women be given more opportunities then men in order to make up for the inequalities of the past, inequalities that men of the present simply aren't responsible for. Because of the preferential treatment they receive in grade school and high school, they outnumber men in college enrollment, thus leading to them getting better paying jobs out of college. Oh yes, they must also receive preferential treatment when they apply for jobs now, in order to - guess what - make up for past inequalities. Now, these princesses who are in the working world, making more money then the men and in better jobs, thumb their noses up at most guys, because, despite feminism, female hypergamy hasn't gone away. So, why "men don’t ask women on dates anymore", "men don’t ask women out in advance anymore", "men don’t take charge of dating plans anymore", etc.? If I were 25 again, I sure as hell wouldn't do any of the things listed above.

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      JD 2 years ago

      This has entirely got to do with the women's rights movement. Men used to do these things when women had lesser rights and were the weaker/gentler sex. This no longer is true and that is why men have changed. I view it at progress. If you want men to go back to the old days then women would have to give up their rights. So it is up to women to choose. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. With rights come responsibilities. You cannot have your rights and choose not to have responsibilities. That is hypocrisy.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      JD,

      I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Can you give me an example of the rights women would have to give up in order to have men treat them in a chivalrous manner?

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      mikegreg 2 years ago

      It's not a question of which rights women would have to give up. It's a question of men's rights. Chivalry is not fair to men in a world where men and women are equals. Chivalry existed in a time when women did not have equality with men. Times have changed. We are all equals now. This is why chivalry is dead. It will probably never come back.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 years ago from Dallas, Texas

      Mikegreg,

      Sadly, I think you're right. I, for one, have never been for all the "equal rights" agendas. Equal as far as humanity goes, absolutely. But God made man and woman different for a purpose. I don't necessarily think men and women should earn the same pay for the same job. I don't think a woman should be President, etc. Don't get me wrong, I think a woman COULD run the country, but just because she can, doesn't mean she should. I think it's out of order. There are times when women should lead, but for the most part, they should take their place next to a capable man who's leading. Anyway, along with every thing else, that time is gone and most likely never to return, like you said. Thanks for the comment.

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      damien modern 2 years ago

      Id rather set my money on fire than use it to buy a woman a drink on first meeting. In fact, just for giggles I have done just that - a woman asked me to buy her a drink, I pulled out a $10 note and moved as if to order her a drink, then changed my mind and set it on fire. The look on her face - priceless.

      If, after meeting a woman and talking for a while, and shes charming and the spark is there, then, maybe.

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      Tommy 2 years ago

      Good job fellas!!! They wanted equality, give it to them! Maybe soon we can start actually demanding responsibility from women too!

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      Mathieu Chartrand 2 years ago

      You know, women are empowered nowadays, in the dating instance, they have too much power....they have created this void where the majority of people in my age groupe are single now. Truth is, the men who do any of hese chivalrous things end up very alone on the scene, you could argue it's our fear of rejection, and that's the thing....the rejection of these men who are considered betas/providers is consistent to a point where they have to top, because the very definition of insanity is oing something over and over and over and over and expect different result...the fact that we don't respect biology and evolution and how we made men disposable by enying them the role of caregiver at home(again i could be mean and say its womens fault, but biology plays a big part here, women do not find men who stay at home suitable mates, reasons: lack of ambition, they do not find it virile, they want a protector, not a caretaker, its evolutionary...no use hating the way nature made us so we survive) but by equalizing the workplace, the career paths of women, this is a result, men don't date women by status....but men date men for status...heck even in male strip clubs, the men re ressed as firemen, soldiers, policemen, all hunky sexy statuses) I share this but will probably be labelled mysoginist or sexist, i am not a traditionalist and i do view women's rights as absolutes, same for gay rights and transgendered rights, but they're incompatible with the way we court each other....theres not enough men who make high salaries to attract who make lower salaries and want that status when the wage gap is inexistant...i don't think women can change their biological desire or a man with status...if i was wrong this article would not exist...

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      2 years ago

      Thank God for you Elaine! This is SO true! As for the men who have posted about how women are ingrates or reply with a what is in it for me?, I agree some things women should NOT expect such as being bought a drink or for a man to show up with a gift EVERY single time you go on a date but others should be a given! Such as asking a woman out, making the plan in advance, and showing initiative whether it be asking a woman to dance, going on a date, or coming up with a suggestion as to where you would like to go! All of these demonstrate interest and I am sorry is a must for most women! We demonstrate OUR interest in accepting your invitations! A man should be paying for the dates until an actual relationship has been established unless the woman he is dating states the desire to pay her way! To each woman her own, personally I like texting and meeting my dates until we are in an established relationship but other women might like to only be called or to be picked up for their dates. Some women might like paying their way I personally feel it shows genuine interest when a man pays on a date and it is sweet if a man shows up with a token of affection but I never would demand that he show up each time with one in hand. So chivalry is relative to each woman. It is no one size fits all but if you don't try guys you will NEVER know what works and what doesn't! I totally agree with the last comment if you find a woman you like don't be standoffish! You win some you lose some but lord if you never try you will never find out! She could be the one you were destined to find but you let her walk right out of your life!

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      2 years ago

      I am not a feminist and I do feel in many ways it has led to the eradication of chivalry. I totally resonate with Elaine's response to mikegreg! I like being the woman in the relationship but I keep running into men who seem to want women who play for the feminist way! So I am confused in a sense I always read comments on the Internet on these blogs how men don't like that but then I seem to meet plenty of men in person who like women like that so I don't know...which is it guys?! You can't have it both ways either!

    • Insidious Sid profile image

      Insidious Sid 2 years ago

      Is this even a question? Why men are not doing these things anymore? Feminism has been beating these things OUT OF US for FORTY YEARS! And besides, you can't have CHIVALRY *and* FEMINISM. It's one way or the other. I don't mean men need to be nasty to women for women to be equal, I am saying for women to choose equality they also must lose the special privileges associated with being female. Those privileges include the 10 things above. Men are being ridiculed, ignored, mocked or even charged or fired for approaching women in these ways now. It's now dangerous to ask a coworker for coffee - even discreetly and nicely.... one time. It's insane to approach a gaggle of women in a club and ask someone to dance. Do you really think it's all that inviting, watching guys who are not George Clooney getting shot down and sneered at and laughed at? Who wants that kind of crap and abuse? If we compliment you, it might be seen as unwelcome, or creepy, or worse, rapey or sexual harassment. (Women say men who experience this kind of rejection are just creepy, weird, rapey or can't "read" women and all of the complex signs, signals and social cues...Hmmmm.... Or another possibility is that only offers from men deemed "acceptable" are okay, and this is just a shameful and sneaky and dishonest way of rejecting a man who simply does not meet your standards.)

      The bottom line is there is one answer to all of these questions: feminism. Feminism has turned male/female social relations into a social and legal and political nightmare and no-offense ladies, most of you and what you "bring".... it just ain't worth the risk and effort.

      That's why men play hook up / pick up / meet up / whatever you call it today with their smart phones. Men are smart. Men are lazy. Men are like water. They follow the path of least resistance. Hook up culture is an easy path. It's sad, for men who DO want something more, but hey. Don't hate the players - hate the game. Besides, you made the rules!

      Women: Lose the attitude. Put DOWN the smart phone. You won't explode if you don't tweet or twitter or update Facebook every 30 seconds. Come back down to earth please. Put some reality back in your standards and expectations. If you're a regular gal, maybe give a regular guy a chance for a change and not write him off as "creepy" because he was a "7" who DARED to ask out another "7". Maybe he won't "pump and dump" you like the tattood pretty-boy wanna-be-alpha posers you're having so much difficulty transforming into decent men with morals and respect for women.

      Face it. You're just giving away sex to pretty/rich douche bags and rough-boy thugs and then whining "Where have all the good men gone?"

      Um, hello. We're right here. On the internet... telling you what you're doing wrong. But feminism has told you that you can DO no wrong, and that any man who refuses to accept ALL of your demands and ALL of your rules is a misogynist or a loser or both.

      So, if you're lonely tonite, just "hook up" with tattoo boy or go visit your feminist friend and play with her cats. The rest of us are drinking and playing video games. We'll be down here in our man caves, waiting until it's SAFE TO COME OUT AGAIN.

      Regards,

      A Man

      PS - I'm MGTOW now and out of the game. This is not about me, I am done. This is for women who still think there is a chance to turn things around and for the confused young men who are so confused about how to act in this confusing day and age. In the meantime, more young men are saying "eff it" and head into man caves to drink beer and play video games. Men are simple creatures - and we don't like playing games we are guaranteed to lose. Feminism: your turn. Next time you ask "Where have all the good men gone" and "Why are men not doing this/that anymore" look in the mirror.

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      kwang pak 24 months ago

      Where to begin.....

      Lets just ask this question. So its all the mens fault? I mean the fact that i usually expect thqt a woman will turn me down if i were to ask her out jas nothin to do with it right? The last time a woman accented my invitation to a date, the Sr. Bush was president. Of course the feminist thinking must be because its all me. It has nothing to do with the fact that these women have overblown expectations of who they want to dqte or antlything right?

      If you turned down a guy whos asked you out before, then stop bitching that we wont ask for you out anymore. We aren't stupid, we know that you're not interested in us anymore. We'll take our useless manselves out of the dating scene and go play video games or something.

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      John 22 months ago

      So if men aren't paying attention to you, it has to be the man's fault? Have you ever considered that you might be worth the effort? Men think logically. If the cost is greater than the benefit, they'll pass every time.

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      Robert 18 months ago

      #10 You're correct; we don't. We shouldn't have to ask you out if dating doesn't bring us any benefit.

      #9 Agree - common courtesy.

      #8 We're tired of having to guess what women want, and they constantly change their minds. They say they want you to take charge but they complain about every little thing. Going out with you is a miserable experience.

      #7 No way. Too many women think this is creepy. And I'm not made of money. I don't expect a gift from you either.

      #6 Disagree - I do, if I'm interested in you.

      #5 No way. Again, too many women think you are a creep who is coming on to her. I don't want a face full of mace.

      #4 Yes - because I don't go to dance clubs. Loud noise and stupid drunk people are not my idea of a good time.

      #3 I don't drink. But anyway, this is the same as bringing a gift. The woman will think you are only trying to get into her pants. Which I'm not.

      #2 Disagree - I make phone calls. What I hate are pointless texts from women who interrupt me while I'm at work. If you do this to me consider yourself dumped.

      #1 It's all about cost vs benefit, risk vs reward. I don't see any area of my life that could be improved by a woman's presence, so why pay any attention to them?

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      Drew 18 months ago

      haha

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      Freeman 18 months ago

      How about you ask me out, buy me a drink, buy me flowers, ask me to dance, impress me instead of your ego, and face my rejection of you!

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      An HonestAnswer 14 months ago

      Well with so many women nowadays that are so very high maintenance, independent, selfish, spoiled, greedy, picky, and so very money hungry, which is a very Good reason why so many of us Good men are still Single today since so many of these women now want the Best and will Never settle for Less. They will Never go with a Good man like us that make so much Less money than they do. God forbid, if they ever did. A real Change from the real Good old fashioned women that we once had years ago which they were so much Nicer and much Easier to meet at that time which it is a real shame for many of us men that we weren't born at a much Earlier time when we could've been all settled down by now with our own Good wife and family today.

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      Kylesar1 14 months ago

      Your #6 point: We have to prove we're worthy of being with a woman?

      The counter question is what about you is worth having to prove my worth to be with you

      In other words, men nowadays are asking "what do you bring to the table?"

      Women can't seem to really answer this question, yet expect the man to prove THEIR worth to them. Why in the blue hell should I prove myself to be with someone who doesn't bring a thing to the table?

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      Michael p 13 months ago

      Nicely written. Obviously if I'm looking this up in the new year it's a growing issue. I wanted to add something you have not heard in bulk by mass of the other comments. When women's lib became a real thing with a path. Change was going to happen for better and worse. Just like marriage. On both sides too. Women and men. I mostly want a o say that the competitive nature you ate noticing is natural from women earning there own respect the same as men before them in the same position. The problem becomes switching off of work mode. Now your individual interpretation of how you want to be treated can exist and thrive. Unfortunately we are what we repeatedly do.

      That is the main source of what you see now. I can explain further but I'll let you react and being up your main worries.

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      Bruno 12 months ago

      Men, after reasonable consideration of the situation conclude that dealing with women offer no advantage, no return, no enjoyment, quite the contrary: women are mostly boring, demanding, whiny, wimpy and most of them, so ugly that I actually am considering chemical castration to stop the pain of having useless sexual desire.

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      Chris 11 months ago

      Posted this in the "8 things women don't do anymore" article, but it's relevant here as well:

      (cut-and-pasted)

      Maybe the problem is women aren't good catches for decent men (the main reasons being #2, #3, and #8), and that's why women get stuck with crappy deadbeat men-- because they're the only ones that'll take her. Of course, it's probably more likely that they chose those crappy deadbeat men because for some stupid reason those crappy deadbeat men made their pussy tingle, and god knows in a woman's mind that trumps all the red-flags that told her he was a bad idea to get involved with him in the first place.

      No man with a sense of self-worth is going to put up with what passes for a woman nowadays-- they're not going to keep a woman who adds no value to his life-- and he decides what the terms for that added value is, not women. In short, women may be the gatekeepers of sex, but good men are the gatekeepers of relationships. Funny how that works, huh?

      In the meantime, women all think they can act like overly-entitled princesses (I deserve to be treated like royalty by a George Clooney/Brad Pitt clone because vagina!), human housepets (lazy as hell in relationships with GOOD men-- not to be confused with "nice guys"-- but happily throw your prime years away on deadbeats/unstable bad-boys), children in adult women's bodies (must be led around by the hand like a 5 year old and told what to do because they have no clue what they're doing in a relationship, or just plain don't care due to the above princess syndrome), or "strong and independent" (I DON"T NEED TO MAN!!... wait... where have all the good men gone? :,( ... in short you refuse to connect and commit to a man on a deeper level, therefore your relationships fail.)

      So, yeah, congratulations ladies... you wanted independence and equality, and now you have it. Bed. Made. Lie.

      Some relevant reading material to this list as a whole (FTR, I'm not affiliated with any of these sites):

      --https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2010/11/23/women-are...

      --https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2013/11/15/why-men-a...

      (most of the other pieces linked in the "withdrawing from courtship" article are worth reading as well)

      --http://www.returnofkings.com/7543/american-girls-h...

      --http://www.rooshv.com/the-death-of-male-authentici...

      --http://www.rooshv.com/do-women-improve-the-lives-o...

      Personally, that last link sums up my own view near-perfectly... except I haven't needed nor wanted a woman for a physical release for 15 years now, and counting. My sex drive is as healthy as ever, but I've found that women are just not very good lovers (and no, my expectations don't come anywhere close to porn sex... which I know better than anyone else is only good for the camera) since most of them only know how to offer a set of holes to stick things in, and that's about it. FTR, yes, I know the problem isn't me, which I base not on anything anyone told me, or any unfounded assumptions, but exclusively on the fact that my exes all were the ones pawing at me and trying to get me into bed... while I was the one swatting them away for the above reason. Women have their own "unique" version of logic, for sure, but one thing I know for sure about them is that they don't try to drag a guy to bed if he doesn't get the job done. Once a guy gets over handing out "pussy-passes", modern women just really don't have much of value to offer a man that he can't get through other, less effort-consuming means.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 11 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for sharing, Chris. There is a lot to address here, too much, in fact. I am seeing and reading some of these same sentiments pretty regularly here lately: basically, women not having anything to offer men. It's sad that this is where we are now, as it relates to male-female relationships and I'm sure there is enough blame to go around to why we are, in fact, here. It's a sad day and time...

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      Bob Smith 11 months ago

      Here's something that I've noticed. On those rare occasions when women actually do make themselves approachable, they'll smile at you, they'll twirl their hair, they'll engage you in light starter conversation, etc. But sooner or later, just before you're ready (and she senses that you're going to bring it up) to suggest getting together for coffee, she'll throw out the word "boyfriend" or "husband". It's like in the movies when the camera zooms in on the mouth in slow-motion--"boyyyfffrienddd...hhhussssbbbannnddd." Guys, you know what I'm talking about. So what's going on here? I think I have a couple of reasonably good ideas. First, she's being a straight-up cocktease and she gets off by stringing guys along. Second, she's currently in a relationship but, for whatever reason, things are bad at home. Her man cheated on her OR it's just some low-level tension in the house and he's not doing it for her emotionally so she's getting her emotional needs met by talking to you. Now, I'm going to give women the benefit of the doubt on this last one and say that they're not trying to be mean. They're just doing what comes naturally; it's in their DNA. But it's incredibly thoughtless. They don't realize that what they're doing is a sort of unintended cocktease. So women will, either intentionally or unintentionally, send out mixed signals and when the guy responds to what he thinks is the real deal, she'll drop the Husband/BF bomb on you, she'll apologize profusely for the confusion and tell you that if she wasn't with her man, you'd be the kind of guy she would go for and how any woman would be lucky to have a guy like you, etc, etc. So, I think most guys are tired of the cockteasing to the point that it would be easier living the monastic life that many are living.

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      Javed 11 months ago

      1. Men don't ask women out anymore: It's alright, just put your princess mentality aside and you ask them out. What's the big deal here? Don't get frustrated and try to live with it.

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      Doug 10 months ago

      This didn't happen because men are afraid of rejection, it happened because men (like me) realized it was not worth it to try to impress women. Women that like men will like you whether or not you do these things. That's what men discovered. So, guys like me realized that doing all of these nice things just made it worse.

      For example, I discovered two things

      1) Women approach me when I go out and I have a cold. I think it's because I don't smile or greet them and therefore don't look desperate.

      2) I get more compliments when I dress way down (jeans and t-shirt) than when I dress up.

      These types of results make me realize that it's pointless to try and impress women.

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      dave 10 months ago

      What happened to women having to prove that they are worthy of being with a man? Oh, women do not want that!

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      Bongstar420 9 months ago

      Thank god...now its time for women to take responsibility for their own happiness. Expecting a man to pay for access to vag is not the proper way to get validated.

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      Mike 8 months ago

      Just went on a date with a nice girl. Had a blast.

      Go on a date 4 days later she tells me she slept a guy on the weekend when she was drinking, and doesnt know why. Why would a guy try to get that anymore. Guys are so disposable now a days. Women just dont care anymore.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 8 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Oh Mike,

      I'm sorry that happened to you. I realize that there are new challenges for both men and women today that didn't exist in recent decades. Don't give in too soon on this one if you liked her. Especially if she was remorseful about it and was just trying to come clean with you. As you know, it's tough finding someone that you vibe with and maybe she had a simple lapse in judgement and it's something the two of you can over come. If not, know that there is someone else out there for you and take this situation and learn what you can from it. Do not judge the next woman based on this experience. Good luck!

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      Corey 8 months ago

      50 years of "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle". Effect, meet cause.

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      Dave 8 months ago

      I France people don't date. It is usually an informal meet up. People meet through people they know. No cold pickups. Same thing in Canada.

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      Cliff 8 months ago

      Gender relations have certainly evolved. Women can make their own personal and professional decisions in a way that they were unable to do in the past, which is fine and just. The situation now, however, means traditional courtship rituals do not fit the current paradigm. The fact that relationships are no longer a mostly practical, economic survival arrangement for women is certainly liberating. But because men and women can now pursue mates with a drive based purely on emotions and desires, this means that what it tends to actually liberate people of average attractiveness (like me) towards is long-term, perhaps permanent single-hood. I'm 33, hard working, ambitious, healthy lifestyle, decent guy I think ... but I don't have sex appeal and there are 16 year olds that have been on more dates than me. The dating scene has become kind of like an "unregulated free market". The previous regulations were not fair. But the new freedom is producing nothing but chaos, with the only people who benefit being those lucky enough to be on the boards of directors. This might all just be conjecture on my part, as even my over-arching theories don't help me navigate these waters: the last time I had an intimate experience with a woman, the TV show "Friends" was still making original episodes.

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      spittingthetruth 8 months ago

      I would like to add that many young women view buying a drink as "trying to get me drunk so I'm easier to seduce" or "trying to impress me through materialistic means" rather than some chivalrous standard or ideal you make it out to be.

      I also know girls who have admitted to dressing provocatively and overtly flirting at bars/pubs in order to "fish" for free drinks, having no intentions of leaving with anyone. This is the standard of women I have come to expect from these sorts of environments, which is why I seldom go to pubs/clubbing in order to meet quality (or even mediocre at best) women. When I do go, I sure as f*** don't go out of my way to approach any women and start offering to pay for their drinks (but I'm sure some other fool will have you covered!).

      Also, if you are expecting to find love or Mr. Right in town, you might want to consider what types of women men associate with drinking venues. Probably not very serious and definitely not long-term. This sentiment is directly reflected in the type of men likely to be found in town/clubs, who tend only to be interested in casual affairs/hook-ups. Birds of a feather flock together.

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      jon creasy 8 months ago

      In the past we did all that stuff for women because they were seen as a gender that men were responsible for caring for, protecting, and providing for. That's over and so are the perks that went with it. Now that women are equal if they want male companionship they have to bring equality to dating as much as they want it everywhere else. It's actually better for us men now.

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      swordsman45 8 months ago

      With regard to #4, men no longer ask women to dance. Women need to learn to dance if they want to be asked to dance. Only 1 out of a 100 women isn't a complete disaster on the hardwood floor. They can't follow, can't move their feet more than a short distance, and most are so out of shape they get winded after 5 minutes of dance. I can respect a good women dancer, even if she's not shown a great talent for dance, because she's taken the time to learn. I totally disdain women who want to dance but won't take lesson.

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      Johnny 8 months ago

      Stay single my friends, the game is rigged.

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      Justin Banjak 8 months ago

      We can't ask women in the work place out any more. Can't ask women out we meet in the street any more. Women don't date guys they meet in bars any more.

      #10 Men don’t ask women on dates anymore

      They’re called “Meet Ups” now. WTH? I understand that since the emergence of online dating, that meeting a new person in a public place is necessary under those circumstances. No problem there. But what has happened is it has taken the place of real dating. In those instances where two people know each other the guys are requesting to “meet” the woman at a location to “hang out” as opposed to actually picking her up to take her out.

      Maybe because women today give some lame ass bull shit. About instead of dating they instanatet to hang out and be "friends".

      "I can't go on a date with you. I just met you."

      "I don't know I just got out of a relationship."

      "How about maybe we can just hang out."

      9 Men don’t ask women out in advance anymore

      It’s Tuesday night and Sam rings Stephanie to catch up with her. After exchanging pleasantries for a moment, he gets to the point of his call: “There’s a new movie coming out this weekend. Would you like to check it out on Saturday?” By Friday, Steven is checking in to confirm things and then… Oh, wait—that’s 1984, not 2014. Now when a guy does actually ask a girl out, there’s barely enough time for her to do the necessary date-prep work.

      See the above comments I made.

      "So can I have your phone number so I can call you and ask you out some time?"

      "I can't give you my phone number. I just met you. I hardly even know you."

      #8 Men don’t take charge of dating plans anymore

      There are few things more frustrating than when you finally decide to go out with a guy for dinner and he leaves all of the decisions of where to eat up to you. Not only is he showing his lack of real interest in showing you a good time, he’s running the risk of you going over his budget for the evening. Besides, women love it when a man takes charge but at the same time is open to her opinion

      LMAO LMAO LMAO LMAO

      It's a trap guys. You ask her what she'd like to do to be a Gentleman. And she says "I don't know, what ever you want to do."

      She's testing you.

      #7 Men don’t show up at your door with a gift/token anymore

      I don’t know when this stopped but I know it was a long time ago. Way back when, a guy would arrive to pick up his date holding something as simple as a single flower, teddy bear, or a book that she said she wanted to read. Wow… I don’t know if anyone does that anymore

      LMAO LMAO

      I don't even have a comment for this spoiled self entitled feminist for this bull shit.

      #6 Men don’t work at impressing anymore

      Something happened with the media advancement of today’s age and the need to impress women. Men now seem to be under the assumption that women are supposed to impress them. I’m sure there are many places to point the finger but women have been tricked into thinking that they are supposed to be working at the pleasure of men in the virtual world and in real life. What happened to men working to prove that they are worthy and capable of being with a woman? Something is definitely wrong here

      So she's up set that men are secure enough in their masculinity. That they don't have to show off like arrogant ass holes. To try and impress women?

      #5 Men don’t give meaningful compliments anymore

      Men whistling or giving a catcall when a woman walks down the street is nothing new. But that’s not what I’m talking about here. I’m referring to men ONLY taking notice of a woman’s physical attributes. And I’m not referring to locker room jargon, either. I’m talking about a man extending this nonsense onto the woman and trying to pass it off as compliments.

      Ah, yes we do. Then you women get pissed off for us treating you like sex objects. On top of that why would I compliment some women who is constantly trying to emasculated, humiliate, condescend and put me down?

      #4 Men don’t ask women to dance anymore

      You’re at a club or even a private party and unlike back in the day when there were couples, there are groups of women on the dance floor and men standing on the sidelines either ogling them or ignoring them all together. Now if a woman doesn’t ask a man to dance, she’s stuck with not dancing at all or only getting off the wall to join in on a line dance

      Because dancing in a club isn't romantic any more. It's devolved into nothing more than dry humping on a dance floor surrounded by strangers to the beat of music.

      #3 Men don’t buy drinks anymore

      Not only are women not being asked to dance, men don’t offer to buy a woman a drink anymore. However, they have no problem taking up her time talking while sipping on theirs.

      If a girl approaches me in a bar I'm not obligated to buy her a drink at all. If we're a date and I asked her out. It's assumed I'd pay. So there fore buying her a drink is a mute point. (When was the last time a woman bought a man a drink?)

      #2 Men don’t make phone calls anymore

      I am all about modern technology but not to the chagrin of authentic communication. Texting is not a way to get to know someone. Texting is for, “I’m on my way,” “I’m running late,” not for, “What kind of work do you do?” and “Tell me about yourself.” Everyone being short on time and wanting to do things quickly has reduced us to this format of interaction and it just doesn’t work

      See the comments I made for #8. And add to it that women are way more obsessed with their cell phones than men. Try talking to a chic who has her nose in her phone all the time.

      #1 Men don’t accept rejection anymore

      I don’t know if men just don’t know how to take it or they’ve become more sensitive than they used to be, but they seem to be terrified of rejection. And this is the reason they don’t do the things listed here anymore. There is no middle ground—you know the man who puts in the effort and work to get the woman. Instead, they either don’t try at all or they don’t take ‘no’ for an answer

      So she writes an article about how "Chivalry" is dead in the modern dating scene. And her #1 reason is because men don't know how to take rejection.

      Feminism killed chivalry. Feminism destroyed the modern dating scene. This is why men don't ask women out any more. Because we're just not that into you, sweet heart.

      #MGTOW #MRA #Antifeminist

    • Meow1968 profile image

      Meow1968 8 months ago

      Here are the real reasons:

      A. 1-9 are usually setting the man up for rejection (10). Perhaps some of us have begun to see it coming.

      B. 1-9 are all actions that women are likely to interpret as "harassment" or worse. Don't blame men for wising up; blame your fellow feminists for creating such a Jane Crow system.

      C. We know most women only want one thing. These days more of us think women should get a job and earn it.

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      Chris 8 months ago

      You can thank radical feminism for this. It is simply not logical or economically sound to bother with women anymore, especially when sexbots are around the corner. There is no longer a need to risk half your life (or more) in relationships.

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      Dave 8 months ago

      uhhh...... I'm so glad I'm gay. If I ever get the craving for fish - I'll open up a can of sardines lol!

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      Onionknight 8 months ago

      Elaine, I like your spirit and your ability to respond reasonably even with discussing what generally ends up being a contentious issue. You've been incredibly gracious to the men that have replied with their own plights, which are genuine for a large proportion of men, and I appreciate that. Most other bloggers simply aren't that considerate of other perspectives.

      You seem to fancy the traditional gender roles, and we do have that in common. It's easy to see how effective they are in allowing a complementary nature with men and women. There are a wide variety of statistics that show how efficacious that template is for the raising of a child and for long, happy marriages.

      However, as successful as I see traditionalism, I have to disagree with you about chivalry, and for good reason. You seem to mistake chivalry as this vague relation to treating a woman well and being able to meet her needs. Chivalry, as we currently know it (not the set of battle etiquette), was born in antiquity through stories and changed the very nature of how we see relationships and romance. It put aside rational, built and grown love and embraced and worshiped infatuation, placing the importance on "feeling it in your gut" rather than building a relationship on principles and values. It placed women on a pedestal so that their behavior and needs were never questioned. No matter how irrational or even masculine as they became, it was always the responsibility of the man to maneuver himself such that she was appeased by his "being more of a man", as if masculinity is simply stoicism to the nth degree. Chivalry is also the reason that any woman, no matter how self-destructive, risky, or violent she is, she will always have a ready set of men near her to defend or protect her in just about any conflict, or else they will be shamed. She, of course, has no correlating responsibilities associated with this benefactor. What chivalry does is take the noble sacrifice of men who willingly protect women and distort it into this cult of sacrifice for men for absolutely no reward as well as a way out of responsibility for women and their behavior. It used to be met with vacuous recognition, but even that has vanished.

      In conclusion, while I agree that traditional gender roles are preferable, I disagree that men should be acting chivalrous. Thanks for the post.

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      Paul 8 months ago

      Hi Elaine - thanks for this great article. Like many of the men who've posted to this, I no longer try to - and will not under any circumstances - interact with women other than in entirely professional circumstances because the margin for misinterpretation of literally anything I might do is simply too great. A woman could charge me with harassment because she doesn't like my face or my regular smile. And though on those sorts of counts she'd likely lose - why would any man put himself in any situation where his reputation and freedom are at risk at every turn? Nope. No woman, no matter how crazy attracted to her I might be is worth it.

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      8 months ago

      dating just isn't worth it anymore, apart from the chance you could get falsely accused just by breathing (obvious sarcastic over reaction) in a woman's direction thanks to third wave and radical feminism, it's just too damn expensive, and a waste of damn time.

      but no being serious, I will not even pay attention to women anymore, I realized really young, most women in my generation are only after attention and validation, and unless you are in the top 10% of attractive guys or are above average in looks, that's as far as it will go, now see I am above average attractiveness, and am a part time model/actor/extra, and used to get women a lot, so you might ask, why isn't it worth my time ?

      because I have had a false accusation put on me, one of DV, all out of spite because I wouldn't talk to her after she broke up with me, 6 hours after mind you, I've also had women lie about being pregnant who then went on to cheating on me straight after. after my experiences, and there have been a lot of them, mind you I'm still only 20 going on 21, I've learned women aren't worth my time, money, and most importantly, my freedom.

      now in saying that I still date, but I'm not the one that makes the effort anymore, not at the start anyway, of course I act interested if I am, but I do not go out of my way to impress said woman, the risk is not worth the reward, and with that said it has worked well for me, I've been in a relationship for a year and a half now.

      but I do not trust women, not after being cheated on multiple times (not by this woman, by others I have previously dated) not after being lied to about pregnancy, and not after a false accusation which could have ruined me and did make me lose a lot of people close to me, including some family.

      yes I love the woman I'm with, but I do not trust her, I don't think I ever fully will, in the back of my mind I will always be watching what I do and say so there is not possible way I can be falsely accused again, I will always be watching my own back, protecting #1, me. nor do I ever think I will ever get married with how one sided family, marriage and divorce courts are towards women and against men.

      I also have a really good eye for spotting the "crazy" ones, and through this unfortunately witnessed a close friend be falsely accused of rape because a girl who had a boyfriend who my friend didn't know about, slept with my friend, and the boyfriend found out, so she said he raped her, now I had warned him, that something like this could happen, he didn't believe me, he does now, but yet he is too trustworthy and continues to keep her as company now that she has retracted the claims and apologized, I believe it could happen again to him.

      it also doesn't help when you've had your own mother hold you by the throat, against a wall, threatening to kill you saying "I put you in this world, I can take you out of it"

      so yes, when I'm single, I do avoid doing these things on the list, to protect myself, because of my experiences, which yes, are extreme, but prove women can be worse than men and destroy a man's life if he is not careful and she so chooses to.

      so no, don't blame men, men are only reacting to how women are acting, blame women and blame feminism, mainly 3rd wave feminism, for allowing it to get this bad.

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      phaidros52 8 months ago

      10.) dont ever ever never be alone with a women in a room, lift, car or anything else.

      9.) "date-prep work" is actually the fraud to make you look as you dont look. Like the guy would go and rent a Ferrari and the loft from his friend. Oh and to agree days ahead makes no sense, she's on her smartphone and doesnt know hoe to program the calendar

      8.) "women love it when a man takes charge but at the same time is open to her opinion" Feminist BS in pure: "I want to eat my cake and keep it". If the guy is letting her choose he's testing her how much of a gold digger she is.

      7.) see 10.)

      6.) "What happened to men working to prove that they are worthy and capable of being with a woman? Something is definitely wrong here."

      What happened to women working and showing that they are worthy and capable to be the one for a man to get 50% of all he owns and the children after she divorces him? Something is definitely wrong here.

      5.) Whistling, catcalling compliments can all be seen (and are be seen by feminists) as sexual harassment. So, going there is danger zone. Did you ever come to your feminist mind that females could give compliments too? I bet not.

      4.) Asking one of these feministizied females to dance? 1. of all we are men and as such natural non-dancers. 2. If you want to feel how rejection feels that you loved so much to give to all the "wrong" guys asking you to dance, go on

      3.) You f***ing females are so proud of your empowerment and what all you can do and better than men and what have you. You can not buy your own drink? Thats how much self sufficient you are?

      2.) Well it works when she ends the relationship with you via SMS. How about that?

      1.) Oh men dont like rejection and females love it? Is that how I have to understand your comment in 4.) "or ignoring them all together" (men beside the dance floor full of women).

      Now 1 explanation but I doubt the author will understand that: With feminism females lost the only thing they had and have to sell: sex. Today it is life threatening for a man to go into a longer relationship with a female. Beside the normal problems that are involved the whole system is against men. The situation of DV which excludes men as victims (even though its 50:50) the situation in family law and in support after divorce, etc, etc.

      Solution: No or very carefull short contact with females, if there is a need it costs about 50 Dollar and the female disappears after the act, no children because you will loose them after divorce and so on

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      PetePol 8 months ago

      Sad. Crying about an outdated form of dating

      In America, chivalry is dead, and feminist killed traditional gender role. There is no benefit for a man to be a "gentleman." The hookup culture is the new normal, and only a fool would spend money on a female. Not to mention that American women are no longer grateful, and somewhat treat men like walking atm cards. In the last past few years, I stopped dating American women, and started dating foreign women { Japanese, Europeans, and Australians}. I treat all my foreign girlfriend with respect, and perform all the listed gripes. The truth is American women are no longer feminine, but rather a weird masculine female. My advice to men is stop dating American females, and start dating foreign women. The difference is night and day. I fear that many young American women will end up alone, and many American men will marry foreigners, or just stop dating. It a sad future.

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      Bill 8 months ago

      Feminists have spent the last couple decades demonizing and belittling men. They have feminized the school systems, made anything masculine bad. And then you wonder why men don't do these things anymore?

      MGTOW, you might want to look it up, because it's here

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      TheXYGhost 8 months ago

      Whoever wrote this article thinks that men are there to serve her needs on a silver platter as if she is entitled to a lifetime filled with all expense paid food, drink and entertainment her way! A subject proves his worthiness to royalty. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm not a servant that will invite a woman into my world the way she wants, how she wants when she wants and pay and provide for her every needs, wants and desires. Feminism made you females equal to men and its your turn to ask us out and entertain us properly or get turned down because you haven't proven yourselves worthy.

      I have to ask you girls something; Do you want to walk around with a king or a servant? Its your choice. A servant serves and a king gets treated well. Its that simple.

      Men can take rejection. Most men get rejected tens of thousands of times at work, in team sports, etc. We know its part of life. We know if we ask and get rejected, we are still OK with it. No is only a word to us. No real man preaches political correctness because we know that words can never harm us. It is the perception of women that men fear rejection because women fear rejection, this is why women throughout history almost never go after anything they really want. Men get the jobs they want because they go to 100's of interviews undaunted. You think a tiny "No" will shatter us? Its OK to think the way you want.

      So what? We do not choose to communicate the way you want us to communicate. Tough. Again, men are not your servants.

      If you want to dance, then dance and entertain us.

      Compliments? Oh, OK, you look nice today. Well you had better put your best outfit together for us. If not, we don't connect. Maybe you need to re-think the jeans and business suits that looks so butch and un flattering. If men wanted to date a person in jeans, figure out the rest.

      Men are not supposed to impress you or shower you with gifts at your doorstep. Get a servant for that. Men are taking charge but they are not taking charge the way you define it, by serving your needs, wants and desires.

      I need to ask one final thing; how many years do you think you are entitled to full royal pampering? Because kids in their teens and 20's are dating. Why not you?

      #TheXYGhost

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 8 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Dear XYGhost,

      I have a man, thank you. And he and I come from the same generation, so no problems there. The sentiment of this article, however, comes from some of my 30-40 plus girlfriends (I'm 51). Based on some of the responses I'm getting from the men here, the pickings are slim for the ladies... :-(

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      TheXYGhost 8 months ago

      Well then tell your 30 somthing and 40 something girls to grow up, act like ladies and not slave drivers and they will have no problems with men. Ask them if they have ever had a boyfriend. I bet that all the boyfriends in their lives were never good enough. I guess they shouldn't dump on the men that thay started out with.

      Your man must be a wimp if he does all the things for you that you said men don't do.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 8 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Aw THEXYGhost,

      You sound so bitter... I'm sorry some woman (or women) has treated you so poorly.

      I'm not going to individually address all of the things you say here but you're somewhat misguided. And trust and believe that I have a real man who knows and appreciates the value of a loving woman; and he doesn't mind (in fact, he enjoys) doing what's necessary to keep a smile on my face. And I happily do the same for him. It's called give and take, but it starts with the man.

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      TheXYGhost 8 months ago

      That is a very typical reply from a female; "You were hurt.", "You are angry.", "You are upset.", "You are bitter." Accusations of another person's feelings as if you were the expert of their emotional state. I also love the belittling, "Aw" at the beginning. Nice touch. It also gives me an insight on who you are. Anyway, I'm not bitter, upset or even hurt. I'm free.

      I know what you are thinking, "You pick the wrong girls", or "The best way to find someone is by not trying". I've done that too.

      I have tried to find a partner for 22 years to no real success until I got married and true to form, she ended it in 2000 blaming me for her lies, cheating, etc. Its never her fault. So from that time I opted out and have been living an exciting life for 17 years. Ive beem to countries on 3 continents and stayed months at a time. I have met extraordinary people, some famous and some not.

      In that time I've been encouraged by many of my friends and family to find a partner to the point of nausium as I watched their lives crumble because of the woman they partnered with. Its never the woman's fault again.

      Over the past 17 years I have hurried to the aide of any man that I heard going through a divorce and ironically, I heard the same story over and over again. It was never the woman's fault. I have worked with men from age 18 to 63 with their girlfriends and I have saved quite a few marriages. The women of those marriages hate to see me come around. Who care as long as the man is happy, women are never satisfied.

      Now I brought my work to the internet and in only 4 months, I have had countless emails of appreciation for my work. I have touched lives from the boondocks of Australia, New Zealand, Germany, The UNited Kingdom, Canada and the United States. I have even received emails from 4 men that connected with me that told me they were on the verge of suicide before they talked to me. They all stated the same story, worldwide, it was never her fault.

      As for your minimalistic retort, you've stated, "he doesn't mind (in fact, he enjoys) doing what's necessary to keep a smile on my face. And I happily do the same for him". Hmmm, this seems like you are both are hopelessly dependent on an external source of happiness. It really sounds like your interpretation of your relationship. Who knows, you can be lying to save face. But you really do seem dependent on the actions of others to be well adjusted. What will happen if that crutch is broken?

      Anyway, I find it very easy to respond to your replies, I wish it were something more cerebral and less emotional and accusatory. I would have loved to be proven wrong as I would have learned something new.

      Keep on replying, maybe your publisher will notice my accomplishments and writing and offer me a place to voice my findings. Who knows, I may even outshine your whiney posts about how men are not submitting to the ways of a woman.

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      Randal 8 months ago

      No no no. The real reason? Women just aren't worth it any more. Time was, when a guy won his gal, he had a PRIZE. Someone who would have his back, fill in the gaps in his life, work along side of him to create a family. Now, he gets a egocentric, controlling whiner who expects to be treated like a princess, but feels zero responsibility of her own.

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      TheXYGhost 8 months ago

      I've come up with my list of 10 things that women do not do any more.

      1) Women will never tell you whose child you are raising - At the dawn of the 21st century we are now finding out that women have more affairs than usually believed. With DNA testing we find that some men are raising children that are not even theirs. Some conservative estimates state that some 30 - 35% of fathers today are raising another man's child unbeknownst to either of the men.

      2 - Women do not keep their families together - In this age of disposable razors, lighters, pens, diapers, etc. women found a way to dispose of the most important man in their child's life for any minuscule reason they can think of and they will have the backing of the Family Courts' anti-masculine agenda to cut a man to pieces just because that man is imperfect for her immediate needs.

      3 - Women are not forgiving - 80% of all divorces in America today are initiated by females. Make no mistake, forgiveness is not part of their plan that includes taking everything you own (children included) and they will stop at nothing to ruin your life with false rape and domestic violence accusations if you do not meet their exact expectations.

      4 - Women do not cook - It was once said that a way to a man's heart is through his stomach but that line of thinking is gone. Once a woman places the dehumanizing label of "provider" or gets you to agree to "take care of her", she will take that to mean that you provide for her every need, want and desire and that includes food, clothes, happiness and excitement when she wants it and how she wants it. Every man would kill or die for a woman that gave him a warm meal at the end of his hard day, but that is too hard for today's woman.

      5 - Women do not partner with strong masculine and moral men - good bye John Wayne and hello to Joey, Chandler and Ross. Women also like the meanest and nastiest men around. They have love affairs with murderers, rapists, thugs and criminals. In fact, when there is a high profile murder or rapist on the news that just got arrested, women will waste no time in writing love letters to that man.

      6 - Women do not contribute to the household expenses - If you talk to any married woman and you get to the point where she talks about finances, she will inevitably say that there is "her money" (The money she acquired even if it was from his wallet) and there is "our money" (the money that he works hard to make). If the hot water heater is broken and there is no money in "our" bank account to fix it, even if she has enough of "her" money to fix it, there is going to be some cold showers in the household's future.

      7 - Women have no shame - Once upon a time women were shamed to have a child out of wedlock, be divorced or even caught in another man's bed other than her husband's. Now these things are the source of a woman's pride and attention. Single motherhood, divorce, receiving welfare and having multiple children from multiple men are badges of honor for today's woman.

      8 - Women do not work - Nearly 60 years have past since the feminist movement of the 1960's and women still do not work. Sure they will take the part time, minimum wage job but they will not even try to be ambitious to do their share to bring in money for the household. If they make more money than their husband, that is grounds for divorce in her eyes. During WWII women worked in factories building ships, tanks and planes for their men at war. In the pre industrial revolution, a woman scrubbed the floors, washed dishes by hand, washed clothes on a washboard by hand chopped wood for fire to make bread, breakfast, lunch and dinner. Today's woman wants a provider to pamper her in luxury to the point that he needs 2 and even 3 jobs to pay for it.

      9 - Women do not take care of their children - Today's statistics show that 75% of all convicted criminals in prison today come from a single mother home. What kind of morals are being instilled by a mother to her child without the father's influence? It seems that for the most part, women only care about theirselves and the care they give to their kids ends up being responsible for America's ultra high prison population

      10 - Women are not loving - When a man comes home from work, instead of a hot meal, a change of clothes and a shoulder rub after a hard day, a woman will complain how hard her life was, give her worn out husband orders to take out the trash, order up food and sweep the leaves.

      Its no wonder why men now are doing their own thing for themselves and excluding selfish, self-centered women behind.

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      John 8 months ago

      I like to observe people.

      And when I observe men and women, in a bar for example, women act like they entitled to the attention of men.

      In my opinion it's only a game for them, who manages to get a date with that hard to get guy, or get the most attention from men.

      When you go further, say long time relationships, she could make it happen you get in serious trouble.

      False (rape) accusations, stealing a mans sperm out of a used condom to inseminate herself, divorce, alimony, child support, half of your belongings gone.

      To much problems for me.

      How I see it women are like Black Widows.

      Once a man has kids with her, she wants to get rid of him.

      Seen that happen several times.

      She only doesn't bite his head off yet.

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      tyson Stallings III 7 months ago

      I am tired installing the door I am homeless and just looking to get back on my feet here in Washington DC looking for work here in DC on my résumé builder and like I said I'm looking for a woman homebody God got me looking for a good man that loves to work and just being at home alone and want to have fun when they're not working I can drink smoke weed or try my best to do all I can do here in DC and I mean it from the bottom of my heart

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      21st Century Man 7 months ago

      Why the f should men wine and dine women? You both have a job, a woman can even earn more than a man. I'm not putting money into you, I don't even know you. Lets go grab a coffee together and TALK cause I want to know you.

      Why should only men try to impress women? I'm not a frigging circus lion. If you don't like me then eff off. What is in it for me? Why should I buy you roses and plan fancy dates? What are you gonna do to me? Have a headache when I want to be inside you? Why bother?

      Men want a real woman these days. Not a child. When men were wining and dining women they made sure the woman kept her mouth shut, stayed in the kitchen and made babies.

      Equality happened. We want a partner who makes us smile and does stuff to us as well cause they love us. We want someone who makes plans as well and surprises us. We want someone who takes care of us when we're sick, just like we do. Chivalry is sexist and I'm glad it's dead. There's no plus sides in chivalry for men.

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      Malcolm Newall 7 months ago

      Let us look at the history, of what drove these behaviors, and what the world is today. It used to be that men worked, and women did so at a much lower rate and for lower pay. Today single women earn as much as single men, so this basic truth no longer applies.

      He used to pay and plan, because he had the resources, and she showed her interest by going along, which is not really a good way of showing interest.

      If she earns as much, and he is expected to pay and plan, and buy gifts, you are in effect saying you place no value in your time with him, and he needs to compensate you for it. Well, oddly enough, men today are not interested in spending time with women who are not interested in them. The signals you send are based heavily on the positions you are in. If I go out with employees I pay, because I have greater ability, and there is a real chance they are there because I suggested it. I pay for a client, because also I am paying for their time. I am paid for by suppliers because they are buying my time. Explain to me why I am seeing a woman as a client, or customer, whose time I am buying?

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      Outlawzero 7 months ago

      Or your equal now why in the hell would I treat you any special than I am. Cannot have it both ways. Want to be treated like a woman from the from the 80s act like a woman from the 80s. You that you think men are the only ones that different than used to. Women's just aren't worth it anymore.

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      LouisCifer 7 months ago

      Hello Elaine,

      I'm really glad you wrote this article. It make sense.

      A woman in her 30's or 40's is bound to become angry and complain about the absence of such desirable behavior in men today.

      Women have completely changed, but men have too along with them. Women at that age today have typically abandoned traditional, feminine gender roles, and are now well-educated, employed (some gainfully) and certainly less dependent on a man for there livelihood. Unchecked female hypergamy calls such women to marry up (the executive, the manager, the attorney, the doctor) and never "settle for less". The traditional notion of women marrying young and having children early in her life has been effectively destroyed, as women put off family to later, while fertility rates and marital stats nose-dive below replacement levels.

      What these women do not seem to understand, however, or at least are thoroughly unwilling to accept is this:

      Men at this age have actually listened.

      They have heard every single thing that their single, divorced mothers, grandmothers, aunts, sisters and female teachers, principals, guidance counselors and psychologists have said about them. They have watched television news, plays and movies and listened to radio talk shows. They have internalized and digested these messages.

      The least respected, most vilified, ridiculed and execrated roles in human society today are none other than that of men, husband and father.

      And so what your 30- and 40-something female friends are now observing and witnessing first hand are the fruits of this onslaught.

      Indeed those fruits are sour.

      Women proudly shed their imaginary "shackles" of accountability and responsibility as a mother or a wife, in order to achieve advanced education, career, financial security, government protection and social status. But then are shocked and offended when they learn that men aged 18-45 might choose for themselves a different path than what women and the rest of society would formally "approve".

      As for dating, well, clearly western women have become completely unapproachable. It is too dangerous for men to do even half the things on your lament list. Men are not as stupid as you make us out to be. We know when we are 5's, 6's and 7's.

      We know what can happen when approaching a girl in Starbucks with earbuds in, or asking a girl out for coffee or to catch a football game, or buying her a drink, let alone complimenting her dress or how she looks. Harassment claims and even false sexual assault accusations by women are now pervasive, have given men a glaring red light.

      So what can be done?

      Nothing.

      It is too late. Women cannot undo the damage.

      Men will never be the same again.

      Too many are being raised by single mothers, separated from their fathers and male role models. Too few of them able to overcome that immense liability on their lives, having been vilified for their masculine traits and instincts by their own mothers.

      And a growing number of men are fed up with being considered by women, the state and the media as default "creeps", sexual predators, rapists and being treated as walking ATMs and disposable utilities by women and their strong-armed boyfriend known as the federal and state goverment.

      Two-thirds of the men born this decade in the US will never get married.

      Women have enjoyed the upper hand in dating, marriage and divorce for decades, laughing at the expense of men.

      It won't last.

      Gender relations are bad, and they are only going to get worse.

      What's most amazing is that women are incapable of acknowledging and accepting how their own role, decisions and behavior have created this barren landscape.

      "Where have all the good men gone?"

      Away.

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      ShyGuy 7 months ago

      Im 32 and tried to be this man since I was a teenager. If I wasnt flat out rejected right off the bat I was purposefully lead on and toyed with as a joke. If by some stroke of luck I did actually get a date I always received the same vague rejections like it didnt feel natural, I have alot on my plate, your really sweet but Im just not sure, you're a great guy and deserve someone better. I can fix just about anything, Im funny, easy to talk to, average looking, I can hold down jobs easily and make more then enough to support myself and a family.

      So what am I suppose to do? I did all those things you listed and not one women has ever wanted anything serious. As usaul, what you and other women dont say is that you want a man who is rich, handsome and does all these things. The common men like myself have figured out your code words and lies and with the rise of prostitutes and escorts becoming more available and easy to access, why date?

      Lets be honest, men date mostly to get sex, woman date for enjoyable time and resources. If your a lady go on an escort page like backpage and see how for the price of a couple dates, a man can have guaranteed sex with a very good looking and clean woman. What do women have to offer in return to us men?

      Friendship? Already have good close friends Ive known longer then you.

      Interesting conversation? Ive tried talking about politics, history, science and a variety of other topics with woman but they never have a clue about the world except for the latest hit tv show.

      Domestic housework? I can clean my house myself and lets be honest women now dont want to do anything like that even though its usually the mans house she moved into. Besides I could hire a maid.

      Child rearing? Probably already a used up single mom who wants you to pay for her ex's kid.

      Companionship? Pets are better companions. Always happy when you come home and just want love and attention. Also a pet wont divorce you because they "just feel unhappy" or cheat on you in marriage then demand a divorce and child support.

      So if your a woman and respond, dont bother with the deflection of your bitter, your angry etc. Good men have been rejected by women as a whole and have taken their business elsewhere. And we are alot happier because of it.

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      LouisCifer 7 months ago

      One thing you are not considering above in your article is age.

      Men and women are not only different, with different sex objectives, strategies and tactics. The tactics and strategies of men and women will vary greatly, depending significantly on age.

      For instance, today young women age 18 to 25 are for the most part not in the least bit interested in marriage, let alone dating. They are very busy. Going to school, getting degrees and working. While their sexual market value is high because of their youth, beauty and fertility, they earn plenty of attention from men both their own age and older. They are also typically having lots of date requests and sex.

      When we start to talk about women age 25-40 the situation changes considerably, and her attitudes toward men as well. The male attention is no longer quite as high as it was, as guys seem to divert more of their attention to younger and more attractive girls. She's had a number of boyfriends by now, and lots of sex with different men who just didn't pan out (wouldn't stay, bad decisions, alpha jerks, etc.). Her jadedness sets in just about the same time she's figured out its probably time to "get serious" and perhaps find a "nice guy" to "settle" on who will not check off all the boxes, but can give her provision, security, social status and children.

      Men at age 25+ are not what they used to be.

      Aside from the incessant overt vilification and ridicule of husbands and fathers by the media and all of the women he's ever known and met in his life (mother, aunts, sister, teachers, co-workers, girlfriends), he also starts to congregate with more mature men, especially at work, etc. And some of these men are neighbors, co-workers, uncles, etc. who he learns have been financially and emotionally annihilated in divorces and through separation from their own children. It's a wake up call for a lot of men around this time.

      Against this unfortunate field of play, I don't know what a single, 30- or 40- year old woman could possibly expect. I do know that whenever women of this age pull out their long check list of requirements, specifications and demands of males, it really is all that these men can do to not laugh them off the stage.

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      Pete 7 months ago

      Number 6: And what do YOU bring to the table, aside from your vagina?

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      happyperson 7 months ago

      And they say feminism is all about equality. Men must do all the work and impress women. Never the other way around. How very equal of you.

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      You are spun 7 months ago

      become a man for a month or so and try dating modern, western women. Jesus F***** christ! It just isnt worth it. Women are just not worth it anymore. I spend my time doing things I enjoy, not messing around with selfie obsessed knobs. I am not looking or trying and would rather be single than deal with you psychos. Go take some more selfies and date your psuedo-thug badboys. its either a high status male or some worthless loser that you all go for, the average dudes dont get your attention.

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      Chuck Dick 7 months ago

      With all the crap you ask for on a date and you probably won't even put out.

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      Allyn 7 months ago

      To put it simply, women bring nothing of value to the table anymore that men want. They have nothing to offer.

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      TellingTheRealTruth 7 months ago

      Most women are just very Horrible to date these days, especially when they have a lot of Issues.

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      Junky 7 months ago

      I will only have a relationship by mutual assent, that is no longer what marriage is these days, a woman can literally get a restraining order against her husband while he is at work and then phone the police on him when he gets home from work because he is breaking the restraining order, she can then use that against him in the divorce to get the house the kids and deny access while he is forced under threat of prison to pay that child support, and she is free to double her income by "dating" other men while her ex pays the bills. This is the legal system that feminism has set up and women have taken full advantage of it. men will leave women cold once those "sex robots" become mainstream and affordable. Also the entitlement of this article comes from someone who loves their spouse and had honest intentions, that is not the experience most men have dating women these days. they turn me off because i see enough of them to see through their games, their BS, and the absolute disbelief on their faces when i call them out on their BS. i and many others like me have put some effort into helping other men (decent human beings) identify this bullshit so they are not led around by their nose. it very much seems like this author is projecting her own morals onto the whole of womankind and thinks all women deserve the same that a woman who treats her husband well and is proud of the fact deserves, they dont, for the most part 80% of women will drop their current man like a stone if they find something "better" from that point on she will start counting "dissatisfaction" points against her man and he is inevitably doomed, she will complain to her girlfriends until she starts to get permission to get rid of him (they start to be ok with the idea), this free's her up to pursue the better "option" that started it all,

      men want someone who has their back and today's women dont, they are after the next better option regardless of who gets the shaft, so why shouldnt men treat them accordingly? if they then prove they are not like that then gifts and flowers are in order, but women no longer have any right to be treated this way before they have proven they are worthy of it.

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      Kimika 7 months ago

      Very good points in this blog I have a chapter in my book S.L.U.T. Women an acrynom that stands for Society's Labels Unfairly Targeting Women called "Is chivalry dead?"

      I feel as women we have become so independent that we have forgotten to allow a man to still be a man. We have to require these things that will allow him to court us. We have become so independent, and we believe we don't need a man to do these things. Reality is we do need them to open doors, to call and schedule a real date, and to bring flowers and simply get to know us first.

      In order for this to change we have to look at ourselves and what we really need. We still need to feel like a lady, and we still need a gentleman. Once we stop trying to be the king we can be his queen allow him to take the lead DEMAND IT!

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      James 6 months ago

      I'm an old guy now, but when I was younger I tried to warn women that they did not want equality, that they would not like it, and they would regret it. Well, I was right, for the most part. Equality can't buy love.

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      Bill 6 months ago

      That's right - we're not interested. Get used to it.

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      pk 6 months ago

      My observation has been a lacking display of manners when it comes to some men's approach. They don't ask you out. They don't open doors or make you feel you are protected. Basically they are afraid of rejection, unwilling to risk anything. So they sort of play this timid game of give and take in their level of interest. Maybe this no dating thing is more about being extremely selfish and not wanting to spend money. Dutch Treat is for later men. It just makes you look small and unappealing on the initial approach. For a woman it is not about -"I expect him to pay for everything." It's more about he is interested enough to display manners and some class. He is a gentlemen.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 6 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for stopping by and leaving a comment, PK. I've been waiting for some insight from a woman since the men have taken over with responses. Good women aren't looking to use a man. It's all about them being a gentleman, like you said.

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      David 6 months ago

      First, I don't really get how when men here talk about their bad experiences the answer's just "I'm sorry that you were treated so poorly by women", yet this article generalizes itself about all men. That being said, some remarks:

      "#9 Men don’t ask women out in advance anymore":

      True, but this has to do with the flexibility most women have nowadays. Asking a woman out shortly before the actual date significantly increases the chances that the date will actually happen. I can't count how many times I've asked a few days to a week in advance, just to get a "sorry, I have other plans now" shortly before the date. A time window of a few hours to a day has proven to be most successful.

      "#8 Men don’t take charge of dating plans anymore":

      Not true of me, but I can clearly see why some men choose to be lazy here. Get to a place she doesn't like and it's all your fault.

      "#4 Men don’t ask women to dance anymore":

      There are countless articles out there, and to me it has been proven by conversations with women, that a large portion of women don't go to the club to dance with men. They go to dance by themselves and have a fun time. Recently, asking a girl to dance has become rude.

      "#3 Men don’t buy drinks anymore":

      The last time I have heard this complain, it was from a woman who also opines that "men think they own you when they buy you a drink". Well, if women get suspicious when they get a drink for free, it's clear that I won't buy one anymore. If buying you a drink actually diminishes my chances, why should I do it?

      Just some quick thoughts. Mind that just because I didn't mention a point, it doesn't necessarily mean that I agree.

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      Rob 6 months ago

      I do all of that .. and now I've been married for 10 years ... I love these bias articles. . Just because it doesn't happen to you and you write a article to whine about it maybe it's just you and maybe you aren't that important. . Men appreciate a woman who is "worth it " .

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      Mark 6 months ago

      Welcome to equality, you demanded it . Now that you got it, if you'd just stop complaining of the entitlement losses that came with it.

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      Nick 6 months ago

      You can't have your cake and eat it too. Do you want equality or do you want enforced gender norms and double standards? If we're making the same money why are men paying the drink? What makes your time more valuable than a mans? It's just an ego trip to make you feel wanted, and yet you're complaining about men being too scared to be rejected? How often have you -ever- been rejected? A guy will get shutdown immediately over and over again and you expect that not to have a toll on his mentality, and yet a woman is very unlikely to be turned down on the offer of a date from any man.

      Maybe the reason you're not getting complimented on your brain or your compassion is because they are not as obvious an asset as you think they are.

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      Lucian 6 months ago

      "Good women aren't looking to use a man. It's all about them being a gentleman, like you said."

      The hard cold truth is that most women are not good. Not in 2016.

      In the past, though, the traditional system kept both bad men AND bad women in check. So everyone was compelled to play by a certain "script" - or "set of rules", if you like - a "script" which kept most people happy most of the time.

      It wasn't ideal - but it was working.

      Nowadays, on the other hand, the status quo not only allows bad women run loose - but actively incentivizes them at every corner.

      Some of the points in your article could literally land good men in jail. That's an immense power given indiscriminately to all women.

      No rational man should ever dare play by the rules you laid out. It's literally life-threatening for men.

      Recommended reading: Dr. Helen Smith - "Men On Strike: Why Men Are Boycotting Marriage and the American Dream".

      Seriously, you MUST read this book. It's written explicitly to cater to women and help women "get it".

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      dave 6 months ago

      So , let me see. For Ms. "PK", it is a "gentleman" (?) who AVOIDS looking "small, unappealing and classless ", by paying for the "first" ( you mean there are more?) date , and showing "good" manners by doing it. From my end, I guess I would pay for the first date if SHE asked ME out, since I would at least know that she was interested. Is that not being a gentleman?

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 5 months ago

      As a man, I wish that woman appreciated these things. Instead you quickly learn these these things make you a loser and laughed at. And it becomes how much can I take from this loser's wallet and trash him on feminist websites.

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      Mr. MGTOW 5 months ago

      The funny things is that times and society has changed due to radical feminism and the "empowerment" of women. Even assuming men do those things on your list (and there are many who have tried), they'll either be ridiculed by empowered women, treated like shit, or married up for his resources, then cheated on with an alpha and divorced.

      Men have wised up to the changes in society and the nature of women. Therefore, put in the least amount of effort possible for sex. Women, for their part, are busy being "liberated", and are having sex with as many bad boys as they can. Essentially renting out their bodies for free or very cheaply. Other good men, who otherwise might have considered a serious relationship with women, see all this and are disgusted by what the modern day woman represents, and decide to also invest in short term, low cost relationships or go their own way completely.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 5 months ago

      We can probably think of a woman to a man to be an investment. Woman will find this offensive but that's because they get money put into them rather than vice versa. If you're going to drop thousands of dollars on someone like the author suggests, you should have good reason. Presumably the author wants more free drinks, more free meals and more free presents. She even states it.

      Now let's go to the stock market. Imagine every stock that you put money into was flaky. Took 5 days to return your call or text or even worse never at all. Who didn't return your call after getting her a present or free meal. Who calls all men creeps on social media for showing a woman affection when she wasn't into him. Who doesn't have any discernible skills of her own. She is bad at cooking; she is messy. Her only hobby is social media.

      Does this seem like a woman a man would invest in?

      Women need to look at themselves as to why men treat them like shit. It's because they aren't investable. If it's on men to do all these things. It's on woman to give a reason to do it. It all too often blows up in our faces. And resources aren't free.

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      rrr 5 months ago

      Come on, it's not that hard.

      Jerks don't do these things, because they never had to anyway, and they get laid just fine without it.

      Nice guys don't do these things anymore, because they realized they're not increasing chances to get laid and it sucks to make effort for a woman only to have her bang another guy hours later, especially if other guy didn't bother with any of that - see previous paragraph.

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      MonsterGlue 5 months ago

      Hey it's the 21st century. Women are the income earners. Women are the college graduates. I think YOU can buy ME a drink. Enjoy your liberation from the patriarchy.

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      John 5 months ago

      Do yourselves a favor, guys, and stop patronizing these women.

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      Frank 5 months ago

      I find myself cuiously out of the norm. Who'd a thunk it?

      All of the things men "don't do" anymore, I do. Opera tickets, a trip to an artist community to wander the shops, booking a recording studio to sing a duet before dinner out--I have a great time at it.

      However, it will never lead anywhere. I enjoy the process, but I'll never make the mistake of taking it to the "next level" again.

      I'll show you a good time, but that's where it ends.

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      Ben 4 months ago

      Well lets face it which today is definitely a total different world that we now live in since the women of today are Nothing at all like the real good old fashioned women were. Most women now are so very Greedy And Selfish altogether since they will only want the Best of all and will Never settle for Less since it is all about them now unfortunately. Many of us Good men out there Can't even say Hello to a woman that will Attract us anymore since we will get Cursed out by her for No Reason at all which makes it very Sad how the women of today have Really Changed since the old days. I really did have this happened to me and a friend that i know had this happened to him a few months after me too. These women do have very Serious Issues the way i see it which this certainly really makes it very Difficult meeting a Good one these days. It was just too very bad that many of us men Weren't Born in the Past since we really Would've Avoided this mess and been Settled Down by now ourselves.

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      Amber 4 months ago

      Reading most of these male responses seem depressing and I feel sorry for most of you who had horrible experiences with women in the past. And yes, I do agree with someone that women in this day and age -- most especially millennial women today-- are very flaky, indecisive, narcissistic, vain, act like entitled and are selfish. I really do sympathize for the men who were treated like crap by these women.

      However, not all women are like that. I am sure there are still are few out there who are decent, sweet, innocent and inexperienced with dating but have trouble looking for a good man because of today's society. Men have trouble looking for those women because they think all women are the same.

      As a single, 30-year old woman who only dated once, I find dating quite frustrating. I've shown interest before in shy men whom I liked and even asked one out due to frustration of his passiveness. In the end, nothing happened to us as he wasn't pulling his weight to show enough interest and I believe my straightforward-ness intimidated him. Not my style; I would much prefer the man to court me.

      With all that aside, I still do appreciate men who held doors open for me, let me step off the elevator first, or other little gestures of chivalry towards me. I sometimes think to myself I was born into the wrong century.

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      BlakeGuy 4 months ago

      Sad how guys have responded to this article.

      I am recently back on the market and read the entire set of comments. I am going through the process of deciding if i want to even bother with dating or if i just want to remain alone. Reading this type of material to help me think about that decision. If i stay alone, then i can get a smaller place, invest nothing in clothes, invest instead in a gym membership and direct time to the things I love rather than Internet dating sites, a string of first dates and developing my game.

      I really love being chivalrous as indicated by your list. I find it just fun to be that way as a guy. No way would i let a women pay for anything on the first set of dates. Of course I would compliment her the second i found traits I really enjoyed. I will buy little gifts but not on the first date as that is too forward in my view. I will always offer to buy drinks. I will ask for dates and with confidence. I will ask for dates a few days in advance. I will set the plan for the date and discuss the details in the process of setting the plan. I will try very hard to impress and choose a girl that I feel I want to impress. So that is most of the list.

      However, I do not want to talk on the phone and really do not want to dance unless I am pretty drunk and the scene is really ideal for me to let loose. These 2 are just a matter of personal preference. The reality is that dancing is sort of a 20 something thing anyway.

      I will accept rejection and think afterwards why I was rejected and how to improve my game.

      But at the same time, I will accept no petty criticism. If she complains about something that is not of any importance, then i will just move on. I do not think i can change complainers.

      I liked reading the article and saddened by how men have responded and taken over the blog. I really do not think the 10 items you have listed are that hard to do and deserve so much anger. I get why men are upset, I experienced a lot of it. Maybe there is a sort of recoil from men going on because of how things have changed over the last 25 years. Hopefully it levels out.

      I think being a man my age in the market for women right now is actually very good. Things are pretty easy, sex is easy come easy go, that is a benefit that guys have now and we should be happy about it, not angry. Guys that are 20-28 have a tough time of it, but think it has always been that way. Girls that age are certainly in high demand.

      Yeah after paying for the first set of dates, a guy has to back off paying and see if she will start to step up. Obviously, with equal incomes the eventual payment scheme needs to be equalized within a partnerhsip. Well that is perhaps when the relationship gets tested and the true motive of the female materializes. (for better or worse)

      As a guy I will follow 1 though 10 above if I feel i am chasing a women who will be a true asset to my life. That means they have savings and financial assets and intelligent views and able to carry on great conversations. This to me is how guys should change their game.

      If a guy just accepts hotness and does not look for a true level partner in all aspects of life, then they will be vulnerable to all the outcomes that caused the anger shared in the commentary. Men just have to adjust to the new world. It does not mean dropping being chivalrous (even though the term is outdated). So that means, if i find I am super attracted to a girl and realize she actually has not been saving in her life and does not have a good asset base. Then I have to move on and protect myself.

      The angry guys should stop being so angry and just think about the new world and make adjustments.

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      Mark 4 months ago

      This article raises many topics. Indeed the breadth of the issues raised within this article are so great that whole books have been written by people with finer and keener minds than I. I see, and thus speak, only through the prism of my own experience as do we all. I speak as a 49 year old man, still single. I am unhappy. The reasons are plentiful and extend further than my loneliness and the lack of the love of a woman in my life.

      As much as I dislike the very idea of rating oneself or others on an attractiveness scale, we cannot refuse to admit that everything is measured in life, therefore with hesitancy I would estimate myself as a 7, meaning I am a five or a six, as we all overestimate ourselves and our abilities generally by 1-2 points. To not do so would render all of us distracted with under confidence, so it is a necessary trait all of humanity share. Clearly as a five or six, there is a greater chance that men such as I will be left for those men taller, better looking and more successful and wealthy. So some of us must accept a fate that does not deliver romantic fulfilment. And that lack of romantic fulfilment, down to the fate of genetics, the social level within which we are born, and the hypergamy of women, provides many of us with bitter experiences that those with preferred genetics and social standing will never know or understand. That female hypergamy, by the way, is a necessary evil. It ensures the best genetics succeed. Genetics does not care much for human feeling. That tendency to seek out of the most beautiful is as much a flaw in men as the seeking of a man of wealth and height is a flaw in women. But neither are flaws as such. They are, as they say, life.

      Now, the view put forward in this article is related, in that women are driven to find a partner to provide, even those women who would classify themselves as feminists. Even a feminist needs a man's linear career goals with no breaks if she is to have children, so she must find a man who is both successful and emotionally rock solid. Part of the demonstration of that success is the ability to lead, make decisions (plan the date) and pay (the demonstration of material wealth). Therefore it makes sense that women would seek out men who demonstrate these traits. The reward for such actions in the past was the showing of respect and appreciation for the man's kindness (sex is a lesser driver for many men, though few care to admit it). It was a reward of love and affection that a man could not achieve elsewhere. That reward, and that respect, is no longer given.

      Even as a man with the preferred genetics, social standing and wealth, the woman's love and affection is pre-determined by the meeting of her criteria, which in itself has nothing to do with selfless and considerate love. So such a man is living under a (sometimes happy) illusion. Those men without the preferred genetics are shelved, and as a result left emotionally raw, damaged and lonely, since support from their fellow men is rarely forthcoming. And whilst enduring this emotional torture, their life choices are severely limited. Withdrawal from paid but unfulfilling work, sometimes an option for the married woman, is rarely if ever an option for the married or single man.

      So one can see that there is no good outcome for a man. If one is lucky enough to have the preferred genetics, wealth and status, one must live under an illusion that one is loved for oneself, not for what one provides to the woman and his offspring. If one does not have those preferred traits, one is left bereft of love by womenfolk, who we were raised to believe to be fairer, kinder, more considerate and full of humanity. And the realisation of these facts is partly why the suicide rates for men (4 times that of women in normal times, 10 times that of women following divorce) is so great. And yet you will, today, upon listening to the news, the radio, the television, or reading a paper or magazine, witness a continued stream of negativity directed toward men. And not a single woman will ask what we can do for those men leaning toward depression and suicide, due, in part, to the massive shifting in gender roles and the negative view that women, and society in general, have toward men. For me, the recurrent witnessing of poor female behaviours and traits has been the single greatest disappointment in my life.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      BlakeGuy,

      I appreciate your dismay at the responses. I realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion but the tone and responses by a lot of the men has saddened me as well. I would go as far as to say that I am appalled, really. I had no idea the sentiments were this strong, and widespread. Makes me feel bad for the nice young women who will one day hope to settle down with a man. It also makes me sad for young men who are satisfied with 'paying for sex' in exchange for a true relationship. Thanks for your comment!

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      Tango 4 months ago

      Yes, it's a sad state of things. But the biggest mistake a woman can make is to read what those men have written and dismiss that as the rants of bitter guys.

      I read somewhere: "The worst thing that can happen to women is that men stop loving them".

      Well, it's happening. Nowadays, women are becoming the enemy. Nowadays, women are seen as only sex objects, because in men's eyes, sex is the only thing they are good for.

      Yes, it's sad. And dangerous. And inevitable.

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      pure garbage 4 months ago

      Well, points 10 thru 2 demonstrate entitlement and the last point demonstrates refusal of compassion. I can't find a better list of reasons to take a more lax approach to dating than this article.

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      Bill Vernon 4 months ago

      Sounds like you're incredibly lazy and self entitled to me. I wouldn't date you if you were the last woman on earth.

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      Jay 4 months ago

      Young man with his two cents here. I will agree that I never do numbers 10, 9, 7, 5, 3, and 2. Personally I feel like it just isn't as acceptable in our culture to do these things anymore. I tend to believe that we live in more of a perpetual hookup culture these days. Calling on the phone, setting up dates far in advance, even asking women out for a one on one get together too early are too personal and come off as weak, clingy, or weird. These days I believe women vet their dates through social media and look for cues of success/wealth/social status in advance before agreeing to meet up. In my experience, even after securing a date, one on one dates are a bit too stiff. It has the thematic subtext of "I am romantically pursuing you" which makes both genders, but especially men, seem "thirsty".....not a good look for a guy. I believe that this is the same reason you don't see tokens, drink buying and meaningful compliments as much anymore either; They are almost red flags in the eyes of women these days....It is a cue of low social value...it subconsciously says "I am beneath you". Girls and boys these days both want to have fun and keep their options wide open romantically, not be tied down and be accountable to meet up with someone and maybe have a horrible time. Unfortunately for those with old fashioned sensibilities, I do not believe the old way of dating will ever return. Anyways, just my two cents. Have a great day.

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      Joeblow1234 4 months ago

      Not only do I not do most of these things but I've lost hope in pursuing women because it never made any difference and I consider myself more attractive and polite than average. That's all I can say. Women aren't women anymore.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 4 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      For Jay:

      Thanks so much for the feedback! Actually, that was very insightful and because I come from the Baby Boomer generation, I'm not well versed on the new ways of dating and I don't have to be. My man and I come from the same era. And for that, I'm thankful...

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      Guy 4 months ago

      Absolutely shocking...... The opinions of women in this post super-feminist age.....

      Honestly, what do women do in the dating scene these days? Women have become the worst combinations of Fribbaults law and hypergamy.

      I firmly believe that woman should do more on dates. Feminism happened. You demanded equality and guess what, you got it. Thats a double edged sword.

      We have simply lost the motivation for marriage because its one sided. All the traditional male expectations are obligatory and none of the female expectations are.

      All your complaints are one sided. For example, why doesnt a female show up at a guys house with a token? Are we not equals?

      Men are simply confused and are on the verge of going it completely alone in life enmasse because marriage simply offers nothing anymore.

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      Rita 3 months ago

      This is article is more outdated than these tradition. Uh... Nobody makes calls anymore, even my dear old grandpa texts me. Bring a teddy bear to a date? Am I a four year old?

      I don't need a man to buy me dinner, I have enough agency to do that for myself. While some women were getting treated like a boys favorite toys decades ago others were standing up for equality, so that women today could have that agency.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 3 months ago

      The article writer said this: "BlakeGuy,

      I appreciate your dismay at the responses. I realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion but the tone and responses by a lot of the men has saddened me as well. I would go as far as to say that I am appalled, really. I had no idea the sentiments were this strong, and widespread. Makes me feel bad for the nice young women who will one day hope to settle down with a man. It also makes me sad for young men who are satisfied with 'paying for sex' in exchange for a true relationship. Thanks for your comment!"

      Hey Elaine, I think your article is a bit of a microcasm of what is actually wrong with women and I hope you read this.

      If you study the thread the dichotomy is fairly obvious that what men expect from a women is vastly lower than what you expect.You expect a man to take the lead, bring gifts, buy drinks, give you compliments and all the while smile when they are rejected. On the other hand, men do not seem to be demanding really anything from you.

      As shown above, what you expect is fairly asymetric and most men would see this as more work than just not having a GF and they enjoy reading books at home and picking up many hobbies. I've had a few GF's but I really enjoy studying economics and stocks in my spare time. And I am fairly happy doing this. Granted, I would love a GF again but I am unsure if it's worth the time and investment given what I see as a flaky asset class. As, I mentioned above, men see women as an investment. To a women perhaps this will be anathema to them but hear me out. Men invest time and money into a women for her loyalty or sex. If the investment seems poor he withdraws both. It's similar to human psychological conditioning. Give a mouse a bit of cheese when he does something well and you will condition him to do a behavior. Women vastly overrate their value of sex and I am perfectly happy to go without it if it means not compromising my morals. And, I only want it from the right woman.

      I am a little appalled that you refuse to admit women might be part of the problem. Or are you deliberately ignoring this factor? One of my best friends is a girl who tells me about all these dates she goes on and the guy who buys her 4 meals. Who she is doing him a favor just to spend time with them. If you think this type of attitude doesn't cause any pause from men then you're helpless. But I hope it does. What women can do is to not expect 1) gifts, 2) men to pay for dates 3) To be reliable and not cancel plans. Sex is really not that important to a man. Loyalty is.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 3 months ago

      One other thing that Elaine seems to overstate is that men today use prostitutes to replaces a GF this is categorically untrue and a myth created by women to pedestalize sex. Women vastly inflate the value of sex as if they are doing the man a large favour -possibly the media has caused this illusion. Prostitution has been declining forever and there are many articles on that. Men feel quite pathetic using a prostitute and this isn't a replacement for a GF. Essentially, the whole idea to court a woman is very important to a man. Paying for sex takes away all the pleasant aspects of courting a woman and makes a man feel pathetic. Having sex with an actual woman makes a man feel very good and that he has achieved something. A prostitute is a huge drain of cash, there is no achievement/ ego boost and skin to skin contact isn't that important. It's the relationship. The replacement is actually not having one. There's so many women in their early 20's going from guy to guy who abhor a relationship. This is the class of women creating men who learn that women aren't good investments.

      To think prostitution is what is causing GF's to go down is 100% wrong and another fake out women are creating. Men have withdrawn from women altogether.

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      Happier Going His Own Way 3 months ago

      One word, ladies: MGTOW

      It's going viral!

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 3 months ago

      I love the end that "men no longer know how to face rejection." Women refuse to make any moves ever because their whole personality is about not being rejected.

      I had a date this week and we had a decent time. It was very cold out -15 or so, so it's not like we could travel around. We had one drink had some laughs etc. I message her a few days later and she essentially ghosts me. I messaged her once 3 days later saying "how was the rest of your week" then she responds like " good & u" and I respond "yeah I did this and one simple question" 24 hours later she responds like "yeah I was." She is completely uninterested in the convo.

      it's this attitude of women of always being too good for every man. Obviously, I am ignoring her text. She refuses to show any engagement in me. Granted, I am not a big texter but it can be used sometimes to make plans when a phone call isn't in order. It's as if you need to take them to 2-3 bars on date 1 and shell out $100 and then have sex with them is the only way to get a second date from a woman. Even when I do that on date 2 she is like, the sex was good but I need a commitment or something. It's literally impossible.

      Is this the type of people that the author wants me to buy her many drinks? shower her with gifts? Ridiculous. Talk about female privilege.

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      Eric 3 months ago

      LOL yeah, big mystery why guys don't put in much effort anymore.

      At least it will seem that way until women put aside their pride & ego.

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      Megness 3 months ago

      As a woman I like that all of these things have changed...

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      Javier 3 months ago

      Im just not Interested in really getting to know a woman. I guess I might be asexual now which is weird because when I was younger I loved trying to get women to talk with me.

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      FancyPants 3 months ago

      These responses may surprise many people, but the breakdown in Western society was predicted by J.D. Unwin of Oxford/Cambridge Universities in the 1930s. His work, Sex and Culture, focused on 80 primitive tribes and 6 advanced civilizations. He found that the sexual restraint of the society determined the cultural achievement. I believe this a quote from Unwin, "The whole of human history does not contain a single instance of a group becoming civilized unless it has been absolutely monogamous, nor is there any example of a group retaining its culture after it has adopted less rigorous customs."

      I bring that up because we are seeing the results of that reality. Liberal movements in the West have degraded tradition values. Sexual liberation of women has degraded the traditional values that promote a strong civilization. Unwin says that the negative effects of this are seen within the next generation of people after the liberation, and the timeline works out in the United States. Look out for the median age of Western society; it will be going up as fertility goes down. Immigration will help curb this issue some, but the current crisis in the EU shows that that is not a painless solution.

      Our civilization may be on its last leg, but Unwin offers an alternative solution. He says that a radical movement within the culture could lead to the revitalization of that culture. It is FAR too early to tell if our current political movement will be a positive influence on this or not, but as it stands this society does not benefit men whatsoever. I will refrain from the details because so many others have aggressively stated them, but Western men are checking out. They play video games instead of contributing to this society.

      As far as relevance to this article, 3 generations of people have been affected by this phenomenon. My opinion ( 27 male) is that men do not value these women. We grew up being taught that those traditional values you posted is what women wanted in a partner. Reality hit us in the face, and it hurt. Men who are successful with women do not those things, and it makes men who used to respect women mad. Some of us want a traditional relationship, and we may still have hope with foreign women or younger women who are not affected by this. Those women still may have purity, loyalty, etc. Data suggests that many men and women of these generations will not find a partner. The men I know do not want women who have given their best years playing the field. If I am not good enough for a woman’s prime years, I am not going to let her enjoy the fruits of my labor in my prime.

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      Jay 3 months ago

      The very sad thing today is that the women in the past really did put the women of today to real shame altogether.

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      Jay 3 months ago

      And why would they? Attractive men don't have to do anything to get sex but show up. Why would less attractive men put any effort into trying to be involved with these women who have already had double and triple digit one night stands with guys for whom they didn't even know their names?

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      I'm still young..& single 3 months ago

      Help! I'm experience every bit of what your saying and have been for a couple of years. I get tons (not to brag) of compliments like "I want to hang out with you!" But it's been 2 years since any of them have actually been a formal "will you go on a date with me?" And less than a handful of times in the last 10 years that I've been asked this way. Note-I'm talking about request to "hangout" for the first time, so there's not even a precedent set yet. Any advise on how to introduce that I require (out of a self respect and tradional belief) a formal request to take me on a date?

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 3 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Dear "I'm still young..& single;"

      The closest thing to advice I can give is for you to date older guys (not knowing your age), because it seems that the men of younger generations have little or no intention on building a relationship with women (MGTOW). At least that is the feel I'm getting from the majority of the responses here.

      I can't even suggest that you try dating a different race because this nonsense has seemed to cross those lines. I have a 30 y/o daughter and I feel for her because this behavior is all a bit normal for her. I wish I could help...

    • profile image

      Steven B. 2 months ago

      Elaine look into the MGTOW movement on YouTube, (MGTOW) Men Go Their Own Way. Yes many men are now shunning women and literally blocking them out. It's getting serious out there in the dating scene and personally I don't like it. Not sure where things will go 5, 10, 20 yrs down the line for couples and the dating and marriage scene. Guess we'll have to wait n see.

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      Ray79 2 months ago

      I do all this stuff. planning dates, being well dressed, inviting, leading, accepting rejection.. women just don't want average looking guys or guy who have normal life (a decent job, some friends and hobbies) they want "amazing" guys, extra social, great looking.. at the end it's an unworthy invest in time and energy. I'm 37 yo and I stopped looking at women anymore, I read a lot everywhere to avoid looking at them, I watch videos about science, war and SF movies, I avoid any "romance" thing and concentrate on my career, health and friends.

      unfortunately, dating is dead because of women's hypergamy.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 2 months ago

      Who else is surprised how Elaine has deliberately avoided comments that don't fit her narrative. The key to solving the problem is admitting your faults. After a date, while I may think woman are terrible (not all went bad in fact they almost all went well before I started dating internet chicks - something I will likely stop doing now given it's awful success. Though again, finding chicks is hard off the internet because you don't want to be accused for sexual assault or labeled a creep) -I do often look at what I can improve for next time often it's just being more fun and the dates where we did multiple locations and an activity went well. I guess girls don't realize the work and stress that goes into planning such a night and having to be on. Sometimes, we kind of want to be like a girl and just sit back and enjoy the night without having to plan everything. In the future, I know not to make this mistake again but at the same time it doesn't motivate me to want to date when I am responsible for being her entertainment for the evening rather than just someone she wants to get to know.

      Is Elaine incapable of this or is this merely a broader problem among woman.

      If your starting premise is woman are perfect than you might want to look in the mirror regarding who the problem is.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 2 months ago

      I am awaiting the article 10 things woman can do better! Because, I could quickly right one for you. I am also capable of admitting men's faults. Both genders have huge issues.

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      The Truth Is 2 months ago

      Well unfortunately most of the women nowadays are just so very horrible altogether since they really have no personality, no good manors, no respect for us good men, a very bad attitude problem, they always look so very mad all the time as well. Very troubled women that we now have out there nowadays unfortunately since they really do have problems with us men as i can see which is a very excellent reason why many of us men are still single now since we really have no reason at all to blame ourselves either. These women unfortunately most likely had been abused by the men that they were with at one time which now they're taking their problems out on us innocent good men that would really know how to treat a good woman with a lot of love and respect. So now they really think that every man out there aren't good enough for them at all which makes them very sad and pathetic altogether now. God forbid trying to start a conversation with a woman that we would really like to meet which she will curse at us for no reason at all since i had this happened to me already. A friend that i know had the very same thing happened to him as well which makes these women so very scary to meet nowadays. The good old fashioned women of years ago were certainly nothing at all like the women of today are since the women in those days really did put these women today to real shame as well.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 2 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Jamie Smarson,

      Thanks for your post! The only comments I’ve deliberately avoided were those just like earlier comments that I already responded to. I didn’t want to keep repeating myself but I do appreciate that many men have your’s and the same opinion. I think it’s great that you look to see how you can improve (you may want to start with not referring to women as chicks and girls) and you’re absolutely correct, women should do the exact same thing. None of us are perfect but I do believe that when we come across the right person for us, we should be willing to do whatever it takes to make the relationship work. If that means I am more supportive to my man, so be it. If that means you should put for effort (for example) in making date plans, then so be it. In short, be ready when the woman perfect for you crosses your path.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 2 months ago from Dallas, Texas

      Dear The Truth Is,

      If you're meeting women who are cursing at you, you may want to rethink where you're going to meet women. That is not the norm... And it doesn't have to be at church either. There are many places to meet nice women. Good luck!

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 2 months ago

      It's good to know that using the word chick 2 times out of 100 in an internet message board is what is making girls lose interest. I don't think this comment makes me the chauvinist you are implying. I believe women and men are 100% equal.

      The point of my argument was to say that there is a lot of planning still expected of men that women don't see. This planning means that I can’t just simply enjoy myself and sit back and relax. You also agreed with me that my job is to provide you with an excellent time. Given the highly stressful dating situation for me, I said it makes me not want to do it. I also gave a specific example of what I can do to improve and there's many more. You offered in return that girls when they find "Mr. Right" will make it work. But this is no different than what men already know about women. The question was what will girls do to improve themselves before they know if he is Mr. Right or not? Like all men know that women will do anything when they meet a 10/10 male. So you're not adding anything new here. Women will often blindly stick by horrible men if they meet their attractiveness and social standard in terms of seeming popular.

      I would start with a few things:

      1) The idea of not being overly choosy would be a good habit for women to start considering

      2) The idea to make date plans of her own and to provide some of the fun

      3) To not sleep around constantly making them low value

      It would be interesting to see your opinions of what a woman can improve in order to be more "investable." At the end of the day no one is going to buy a woman a box of chocolates if they know she participated in a gang bang and sleeps around. And women also seem to always default that exercise and makeup is the only answer.

      What can woman do besides physical to make themselves better for men to pursue? Or is it just a one way street? And are the genders going to continue growing apart.

      In Conclusion: Men see society as a 2 way street but see the date demands of women as being a 1 way street. Women believe in chivalry only when it stands to benefit from them. Will women begin to do things to win men?

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 2 months ago

      It's good to know that using the word chick 2 times out of 100 in an internet message board is what is making girls lose interest. I don't think this comment makes me the chauvinist you are implying. I believe women and men are 100% equal.

      The point of my argument was to say that there is a lot of planning still expected of men that women don't see. This planning means that I can’t just simply enjoy myself and sit back and relax. You also agreed with me that my job is to provide you with an excellent time. Given the highly stressful dating situation for me, I said it makes me not want to do it. I also gave a specific example of what I can do to improve and there's many more. You offered in return that girls when they find "Mr. Right" will make it work. But this is no different than what men already know about women. The question was what will girls do to improve themselves before they know if he is Mr. Right or not? Like all men know that women will do anything when they meet a 10/10 male. So you're not adding anything new here. Women will often blindly stick by horrible men if they meet their attractiveness and social standard in terms of seeming popular.

      I would suggest one thing woman can do to improve. The idea of "Mr. Right" doesn't exist and the idea of being willing to give guys a chance that don't seem to be Mr. Right at first blush but aren't Mr. Wrong either. They are Mr. Almost Right.

      But it would be nice to see your opinion on what woman can do to improve themselves.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 2 months ago

      This is probably what the modern day male fears the most https://twitter.com/johnhawkinsrwn/status/83017969...

      Elaine and her gal pals were incorrectly say that this sweetheart will one day find the woman of his dreams but they all don't want to ironically be that woman. Every man knows this. You love this guy but wouldn't have a relationship with him.

      And this 100% sums up why no self respecting male will do anything on her list.

      We are in an inbetween period where woman want what their mothers had but actually are unattracted to it. Why are they unattracted? Because 1) women have jobs now so showing them resources isn't the same draw it used to be rather it makes you look pathetic. 2) Government has filled the role of the traditional male. again women don't feel like their live is ruined if they don't get married.

      In conclusion. Elain is 100% right that men don't to these things anymore but her conclusion is 100% wrong. Men are simply not doing these things because there is no value in them.

    • profile image

      Late2theparty 2 months ago

      Eh... Ever since I gave up on the illusion of ever being in a relationship life's been wonderful.

      It is so much easier to just look at porn. Variety, low maintenance, and easy access. Versus what?... Drama, mind games, hypocrisy. Lol are you serious.

      Why would I want to spend all of my 20's building resources just to have the woman that can't attract the studs anymore to SUDDENLY want me. I wonder why. The package deal also comes with the sperm donor's spawns.

      Or shall I say pawns because they'll be used as emotional bullets for the law to aim at the next idiots head if he tries to tie the knot. What a joke.

      What sort of fool would accept that deal?

      No amount of shaming will convince me to ever fall for that bs again. Let's be real for a second.

      You slept around for 10 years after highschool. Slowly, you noticed the younger gals stealing the attention from the men you used to be able to snag. So you do the smart thing. You change your methods to get the same result.

      So you go for guys you'd ignore before. Less competition. The same amount of attention. Sweet deal right. There's one problem.

      WE'RE HUMAN BEINGS TOO. Men are not expendable resources. What's up with this ridiculous idea that if you make fun of us you will get us to do what you want? Lol. GROW UP.

      Don't play the game and then complain about the rules. Then once, you change the rules you complain again because we do what you should have done in the first place. Not play.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 2 months ago

      Exactly, most girls today want to spend their 20's sleeping around rather than dating. Laine isn't realizing the crappy dating market for men before she makes her audacious asks of men.

      The real question is why women are even allowed to demand such things without being labeled a sexist? I am sure lainey would say men and women deserve equal jobs and everything but when it comes to relationships women must have all these perks.

      How about you get what I get? I love equality, it's time women loved it too or else why date you? Why should i flower you in gifts if society isn't stopping you from getting the same job as me? It makes 0 sense. I will give you nothing. and you will date me because you like being with me. I am loyal and devoted and am interested in an LTR. If a girl doesn't get this than I'd prefer not to date.

    • profile image

      Susan Crookes 2 months ago

      Totally agree,I'm fed up with the dating scene because most men don't want to daw,they jus want to get laid without putting their hand in their pocket

    • profile image

      Jim 7 weeks ago

      A guy can get laid without the effort these days, so why bother with all the things in your list?

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 7 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      You're exactly right if getting laid is a guy's only motivation when interacting with a woman. Sad, sad day we live in... Men don't at all seem to be interested in love or being in a relationship with a woman.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 7 weeks ago

      "You're exactly right if getting laid is a guy's only motivation when interacting with a woman. Sad, sad day we live in... Men don't at all seem to be interested in love or being in a relationship with a woman."

      I love how you take the comment of one pathetic man and you attribute it to all men -sex isn't valuable at all -and woman vastly overrate it's value thanks to morons like the above -there's no reason to use women just for sex because sex doesn't feel that good, its around the same as masturbation -what's different is the bonding and the satisfaction from the interaction just like going out and having a fun night with friends can put you on a mental high.

      I literally said right above "Why should i flower you in gifts if society isn't stopping you from getting the same job as me? It makes 0 sense. I will give you nothing. and you will date me because you like being with me. I am loyal and devoted and am interested in an LTR. If a girl doesn't get this than I'd prefer not to date."

      And you still haven't shown why your article isn't sexist. I assume you believe in equality but also believe it's a man's job to do all these special things just because someone is a woman.

      Hypocrite much?

    • profile image

      Winter 7 weeks ago

      About number 3: Have you ever been to bars lately? Because I stopped going to them for 2 years, still don't know why so many people love them. They are the worst place to meet anyone (you can't hear at all with the ridicously loud poor quality music).

      And have you ever read those news about rapes or kidnappings when a woman accepts a stranger's drink?

      And number 4: I still don't know why so many people love modern dancing music from my country, seriously, a dog's barking has much higher quality and the lyrics.. oh God... a kindergarten book is way smarter and more elaborate than that pile of crap.

      That's why I don't dance, people here only dance to that garbage, it's even completely ridiculous and disgusting. (The ironic part it's that the lyrics usually insult women and most of them dance it so happily).

    • profile image

      Jeff A 7 weeks ago

      Men are not stupid we're problem solvers, things like this don't just happen or not happen for no reason. Men stopped doing the things the author is writing about because they stopped working with women. We have been observing throughout our lives that the men who continue to have the most success romantically with women are the ones who didn't do any of these things AKA the Bad Boys and when we did them or we saw our friends do them they and we were relegated to the friend zone just about every time. If being a nice guy starts working again believe me you'll see men starting doing left and right.

    • profile image

      James 6 weeks ago

      Some of these have been done away with for good reason for example picking up a woman for a date. In the past this was custom because there were far fewer woman who had access to cars or even drivers licenses. It is a different case today and as a result more woman want to feel independent by driving themselves and meeting a man at a place. As for woman loving it when a man takes charge, as a young man in college I can say first hand that women find this condescending and would rather be active in deciding which location the date happens at. Lol and lastly for the buying drinks at a club for a woman. Many men have been burned by mooching woman far too many times. This is obviously not true of all woman but far too many will pretend to be interested in what a man has to say and then shut him down, conveniently after stringing him along and making him pay for a few drinks. In tough economic climates clubbing is very expensive for millennials and you can barely afford to drink for one let alone 2.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 6 weeks ago

      Exactly James

      What arrogance of Elaine and women in general. You aren't special at all. You will be with us if we get you 0 drinks. And every guy knows this. Money is scarce and certainly women are worth $0 investments at the current time. Their stocks are at all time lows.

      If you want to raise your stock -women what you would need to do is go back to the old patriarchal society where you had no income and you relied on men for everything.

      I actually prefer the current society of equality but my point is you can't have both. You can't have a society that is egalitarian that then forces men to simultaneously provide presents and gifts just to be with a women.

      There is just this perpetual arrogance by people like Elaine that women are so special. I think that is why men are leaving the dating market in droves. Men want to date their equal not a diva like Elaine.

      And Elaine may be like GOOD I don't want to date you either.

      Again which explains why people leave the dating market. If people like Elaine thinks shes owed something for just going on a date then we have a problem.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 6 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Jamie,

      Why the anger? I understand that you may have not read everything in the article or the many responses but I have admitted that I believe in specific gender roles. And if a woman can be a sexist, then you can ascribe that to me. I say if, because I'm really not sure; just as blacks cannot be racist according to its true definition. Women do not hold the power, so I'm not sure if we can, in turn, be sexist. At any rate, I move on. Your "assumption" of me believing in equality between the sexes, is also incorrect. I believe in equal rights as human beings but in the work place, there are certain jobs (and activities) that men do better and vice versa. I'm not sure who you're calling a moron but how about we not call names and such. You're entitled to your opinion and there's no reason for any of us to be indignant as we discuss this.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 6 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Great points, James!

      Thanks for your response. I'm sure that different times have called for things being done differently.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 6 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Wow James,

      You've called me arrogant, I'm not. You say I think I'm special, I am! And every woman should think that she is special. If she doesn't, then she'll start accepting being treated poorly. You've called me a diva, I'm not sure what your definition is so I'll let that go.

      If a man has asked me out on a date, I would assume that he will put forth the effort of showing me that he's interested in me. And that's all I think I'm owed at that point. And he, in turn, should have expectations of his own (being treated with respect, etc.). It's really pretty simple.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 6 weeks ago

      Not sure, why you're attributing anger to me perhaps it's your own anger you're misplacing on me not sure.

      On racism, yes by true definition you can be racist if you don't like white people, Elaine. Walk around you're office shooting black power and kick white people and let me know if you're not being a racist for doing it.

      Onto your last point, yes if someone is interested they shouldn't be treated like crap but above you had a list of demands youre owed for being a woman. You tempered your demands in your last post that the man should be interested. I agree. But being interested doesn't mean he showers you with gifts. Again if that's what it takes to make you interested then who would want to be with you? If you don't know what a diva is then that is the definition. Someone who needs to be showered with gifts to be happy in a relationship.

      Again it would be pretty sexist for me to say I need a woman who cook and cleans, puts her career secondary to mine, never goes out of the house without my approval.

      I am merely pointing out the latent sexism in your posts. And yes you can be sexist. And where's this idea that women don't have power. They are the leaders in Germany, Scotland ,UK, they make more then men in their 20s, they vote more then men. Not sure you're making yourself look very educated here Elaine by spouting mistruths.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 6 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Jamie,

      First, racism is when one group with power denies equal rights to another group without power. Over the years, this definition has been watered down and is frequently confused with prejudice, which is what you've described. But that's not even what we're here to discuss.

      Second, The title of the article is "10 Things Men Don't Do Anymore" not "Elaine's 10 Demands" so quiet down with them demands you claim I'm making.

      Third, I have a man. So, that takes care of that.

      Lastly, if I'm a sexist, then so be it. I like clear defined roles and I would not have a problem with my husband's career coming first. Also, I live in the US, not Germany, Scotland, or the UK. And, it's a man's world whether you want to admit it or not.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 6 weeks ago

      Yes, the US is so backward compared to Scotland and England. I'm not going to reference other websites but if you were to do a quick search there are many economic studies of women in their 20s make more then men.

      There's no proof that it's any longer a man's world when we

      1) have to pay child support even if we don't want the kid but a woman can do an abortion and men can't opt out?

      2) male prison sentences for the same crime are far longer.

      3) as said above women in their 20s make more then men.

      I see you deflected my clear example of racism. You can continue to believe the racism isn't about race but power. You're right the topic isn't about that but a little disheartening to see you trivialize the evils of hating another race for looking different than you. But of course you couldn't be racist right? Because whites make more money than black people on average therefore there hatred is just fine.

      I will say at least you're consistent Elaine. If you do believe in putting your career secondary then your ideas are great. Unfortunately, most of your readers want it all. They want their man to treat them like a queen and they want to also ensure that they have the same pursuits as a man. So essentially, they want all the positive of being a traditional woman and non of the negatives. This isn't you and thanks for the discussion.

    • profile image

      goldielox2382 6 weeks ago

      This. This. And, this again.

    • profile image

      Perry 4 weeks ago

      Elaine, you are not entitled to anything.

      And women can ask out men just as easy.

      This article is why I no longer approach women.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 4 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Perry,

      I never said I was entitled to receive any of these ten things, although I do (my younger girlfriends are the ones mostly suffering this fate). The article is simply about things that men once did that they no longer do. However, you and I may not agree on the reasons why that is the case.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 4 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      You are absolutely right and I know plenty of women who do just that. But that wasn't the point of the article :-)

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 4 weeks ago

      Perhaps your younger girl friends are suffering this fate due to all the meams of girls trying to get guys to buy them pizza on apps like tinder etc.

      Whether or not you like being spoiled . I can't blame men for not wanting to be taken advantage of. A few bad apples always ruin the batch.

    • Jamie Smarson profile image

      Jamie Smarson 4 weeks ago

      Though, I think the conclusion from all of this should be that Elaine says black people can't be racist. That's perhaps more astonishing than all the other crap she wrote.

      Really evil stuff.

    • profile image

      Perry 4 weeks ago

      Jesus, Jamie. How many posts are you going to do?

      Go find a hobby, bud.

    • profile image

      Perry 4 weeks ago

      "I never said I was entitled to receive any of these ten things, . . ."

      No, Elaine, but you implied it. And you believe it.

      Hell, in that same post you used the word "fate."

      I'm not going to post again. It doesn't make sense for the two of us to do that when we strongly disagree with one another, especially when you aren't being honest here..

      But I still do wish you all the luck with that man in your life.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 3 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Jamie,

      Evil? Really? Again, blacks in America can be prejudice but they do not have any overall power as a group, therefore they cannot execute any type of racism against whites (if we're using the actual definition of the word). Be blessed.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 3 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thank you, Perry :-)

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 3 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Again, thanks.

    • profile image

      Jack 3 weeks ago

      I'm not sure how I got to this site. Some random bit of click bait I imagine. I thought I'd throw in my two cents. I've been a pickup artist most of my life. I can tell you flat out that if you exhibit any of the behaviors on this list with modern American women under the age of 40 you will fail and fail hard. The first rule of the PUA is 'don't listen to a word a woman says. Watch her actions instead.' The second rule is, 'Don't spend a dime on a woman until you've been to bed with her.'. Those rules are ironclad. Don't break them ever.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 3 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Wow! Thanks for info, Pick Up Artist Jack!

    • profile image

      Galen L 3 weeks ago

      This is a true point by Jack, and it is unclear why Elaine feels the need to be condescending to Jack as if him being a PUA disqualifies his opinion.

      I have a good friend who is a girl. A guy and her dated for a month. He did everything for her. Her phone broke down so he came over at 1 AM to ensure she woke up the next night on time. He was there all the time. He ended up breaking up with her when she kept saying you need to do more for me. I am special etc. She had been spoiled by other dudes who had bought her lots and lots of presents. And him buying her food, drinks wasn't enough for her. She needed even more.

      Anyways, they break up. 2 weeks later he says, I am thinking about you etc. And now she again wants to date him and is still super interested with essentially no commitment. Now, it's non exclusive far more on his terms--if he chooses to continue.

      The issue is girls often push guys away when they are being nice. It's a human trait. Such as when your company gives you 15 days of vacation you want 16. If they give you 30 you want 31. Men have learned to not give women metaphorically, 30 days vacation for her to push for 31. If you give her 1 day of vacation again metaphorically she might even respect you more.

      It's a tricky dating environment for men and women. men and women are both going on more dates than ever and are less satisfied than ever. Both , men & women, are dating so many people that their standards have risen to super high levels for what they will accept.

      Just like a person eating steak for a week at a rich family relatives house may raise his standards forever. So does a woman dating a 10/10 male or seeing him. Her standards are often unrealistic. But, it's not just women it's also men.

      So everything is a perfect storm for an awful dating environment all around. Succinctly put, keeping investment low as Jack said tends to be the more correct choice of action. But all rules should not be 100% followed. There may be random exceptions but as a rule of thumb he isn't wrong.

    • profile image

      Perry Rose 2 weeks ago

      Fools like these is why I sometimes feel sorry for women.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 2 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Which fools are you referring to, Perry?

    • Josef Dickens profile image

      Josef Dickens 2 weeks ago

      It's simple; the men that don't even date are wising up and they see how the dating scene is rigged and one sided. In this age of "equality", third wave feminism spews all kinds of garbage like how men just need to "man up" and deal with it and take this and that. Well, the bull**** is getting called out for what it is and things are going to start changing, especially in America. It's already happening with the teaching of MGTOW, Men Going Their Own Way and it's the most logical philosophy for men who care about protecting themselves against broken custody courts and greedy, spiteful women. I happily dine out alone at the nicest places and my tab isn't double and it's just wonderful. I see dudes on dates and think to myself, glad I'm not you. MGTOW is the solution and it's dangerous for women but this is what they get. This is what happens when generations of women are indoctrinated and taught that they are superior and entitled princesses. Wise men will take heed, the blind will learn the hard way.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQfBt_GxYaI&t

    • profile image

      Thomas 2 weeks ago

      Why are the comments dated "2 years ago," when the article is less than a year old as I read this??

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 2 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Based on its popularity (I'm guessing) they republished it. Good question, though!

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 2 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for the comment.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 2 weeks ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for the comment.

    • profile image

      Jason 13 days ago

      Hi Elaine,

      Good article, but it seems unfortunately optimistic for this era.

      In reality, many of us are now far too jaded this level of chivalry.

      Yes, we use to offer to buy women drinks in bars. Unfortunately, we have spent many evenings buying drinks just to be told at the end of the evening, that the woman is not interested in us. That's fine, but why say that after the six or seventh drink? That's what we are sick and tired of. When women can go the bar and spend all evening drinking for free, at our expense, there is a problem with the system.

      I'm not even going to mention the idea that if she is interested, the drinks shouldn't be the deciding factor.

      Chivalry IS officially dead. While the following is an extreme example, it is a real example from about five years ago. I was waiting for an elevator. Two women approached and were also waiting, slightly behind me. The elevator arrived and the door opened. "Ladies first," I said. They walked into the elevator. Once I had entered, one looked at me and say "We are women, not ladies." My thought, "Very true."

      The reality is that we are not as dumb as we are portrayed in the media. I was raised to be kind and chivalrous. Now, my chivalry is only practiced for people that seem to be my age (I'm 50ish) or older. Those seem to be the generations that still appreciate it.

      I am so tired of not being good enough because I am not six feet tall. If 5' 10" isn't good enough, then I'm out.

      I have a great job that I love, I can't remember a time that I was unemployed. I try very hard to be kind and cheerful. I have a pension plan at work. I own property. I try to help the less fortunate. So ..... I have to be six feet tall too? Lol.

      Let's look at the sliding scale here for a moment. One date is a couple of days of planning. A couple of hundred dollars for dinner and drinks, plus the flowers and/or gift. Now lets assume for a moment that I want to look presentable, so I may do some dry cleaning and a car wash before I pick her up. And all of this is so that I can find out if she is interested?

      Do you remember the old saying that goes "just because you bought me dinner, that doesn't mean that I owe you anything?" I believe that the statement is correct. But, how about this "just because I think you are interesting, doesn't mean that I owe you anything." If the interest is mutual, then let it blossom organically. If the interest isn't mutual, I'll save my two hundred dollars.

      Man are starting to realize that we don't really need a woman to complete us.

      So, I'm afraid that I am exactly one of the men that your article discusses. But, I'm a bit worse because I no longer ask women out at all.

      I am independent, self-sufficient and intelligent. Why would I put myself through all of that?

    • profile image

      Alpha 13 days ago

      I can't believe what I've just read! I think you need to get over yourself, you women wanted equality but expect us to do everything. Times have changed how about you women do some of the things you have mentioned in your little rant.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 13 days ago from Dallas, Texas

      Galen,

      Insane? Really? Question (rhetorical): why does this article make you angry? And, angry enough to call me insane? You may need to do some self-evaluation. Try researching the true meaning of racism (not being prejudice, which is different) and get some answers for yourself. This is not an article about race or religious persecution. Calm the hell down!

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
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      Elaine Flowers 13 days ago from Dallas, Texas

      Jason,

      Thanks for the comment. You and I are in the same age bracket so I certainly hear where you're coming from. There are some silly women out there with check lists and aren't interested in finding a true connection. Yes, things have changed and men are no longer falling for the trap some women have set for the unsuspecting man. I do, however, believe that when two people who are meant to be together, the things on this list I've created won't matter one bit. You sound like a great man and I hope you have (or will find) a great woman. If not, sounds like you're doing just fine!

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 11 days ago from Dallas, Texas

      Galen,

      You are insane to continue this so-called debate on race when the article is about relationships between men and women, and I regret that you’re even dragging me into your insanity.

      There are many people who, over time, have changed the definition of racism (when what they’re referring to is prejudice) but, and I’m going to say it for the last time, the true definition is about one group having power over another group. And black Americans lack the ability to control anything over white Americans. Now, take your white self over to practically any country in the African continent, and they will have the ability to practice racism against you.

      Now, go get yourself a life.

    • profile image

      MarkyMark11 9 days ago

      I'm not one comment but this comment by the author really blew my mind in a bad way

      " And black Americans lack the ability to control anything over white Americans. Now, take your white self over to practically any country in the African continent, and they will have the ability to practice racism against you."

      So according to her if I call a black person the N word in America than I am a racist but if I do in Africa then I am not? Also a little disrespectful of the author to refer to someone as their "white self." She seems as Galen pointed out to be unstable even though she constantly tells everyone else to calm down.

      We're getting to a very dangerous point in society if people believe Elaine's definition of racism and are glad to promulgate this lie. Racism is based on race not power. Racism is hating another race for being another race. It's perfectly fine to hate your boss if he tells you to buy him a coffee and your job is an investment banker. It's not okay to hate someone because they are white and are walking down the street minding their own business. They may even be poorer than you! They may have a worse life than you. I am not sure how Elaine says this "white" person can exercise power over a black person. I certainly have no power to tell Lebron James to give me all his money or Kanye or any richer black person I know. I wish I had this amazing power she speaks of.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 9 days ago from Dallas, Texas

      MarkyMark,

      Thank you for your comment. Please, bash me on the article if you disagree with its content but let’s not focus on confusing racism with being prejudice. Racism is about groups, not individuals. You don’t have to believe me, just ask someone who is truly educated on the matter like a professor of social anthropology, for example. And to your point, by the time I told the other man to take ‘your white self to any country in Africa’ I was annoyed and had deleted many of his posts going on and on and on. Racial tension and matters are sensitive for white America right now (even though they’ve always been sensitive for blacks) so I get that and I get why you feel the need to say what you’re saying. I’m not trying to change your mind on how you view things; it is what it is. But let’s not call each other unstable. You have your frame of reference, so realize that I have mine.

      So again, let’s stay on the subject of the article.

    • profile image

      MarkyMark11 9 days ago

      Elaine you said "You don’t have to believe me, just ask someone who is truly educated on the matter like a professor of social anthropology"

      Rather than ask professors or "experts" I am asking you.

      Do you think I am not racist if I say the "N" word in Africa?

      Are you not racist for hating a white person walking down the street in the US cuz they are white?

      Am I not racist if I hate a black person walking down the street in the US?

      Am I not racist for hating a black person walking down the street in Africa?

      We don't really need a professor here they are fairly basic questions that we both should easily agree on. We don't need to get into a semantic argument so if you want to define "racism" as meaning something else then do you agree it's wrong to do these things?

      I will focus on the article but I found your opinions to be disturbing with regards to race.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 9 days ago from Dallas, Texas

      MarkyMark11,

      Yes, hating someone based on his or her race is wrong. That is called being prejudice, as in prejudging them before having a pure reason to dislike or hate him or her. The examples you used are examples of being prejudice. If you are walking down the street and hate a black person purely on his race, you may be joining into a racist culture that already exist, making you a racist (if you are indeed apart of the majority group).

      Racism is about controlling a particular race of people. Minorities of any group do not have the power or resources to practice racism over another group who happened to be the majority.

      For the love of God and all that is Holy, can we please get back to the subject of this article?

    • profile image

      MarkyMark11 9 days ago

      You said this above "just as blacks cannot be racist according to its true definition. Women do not hold the power, so I'm not sure if we can, in turn, be sexist."

      It sounds like you're saying blacks and women cannot be racist in America but they can be prejudiced? I assume you believe it would be wrong to hate me for the sole reason that I am a man? It seems you're making a very semantic based argument--as most if not all dictionaries define racism the way I defined it.. It would be more clear going forward when you mention "blacks cannot be racist" to explain that they still can be prejudiced and tell your readers that you aren't using a dictionary definition rather your using the definition of some professor that you once knew.

    • Elaine Flowers profile image
      Author

      Elaine Flowers 9 days ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for the advice. I should probably do that.

    • profile image

      Someone who just plays video games. 3 days ago

      I just don't care because I'm having far too much fun enjoying everything in my life to even imagine the thought of sharing it with someone else, and besides the media doesn't do women justice with the amount of shit they do to make men fear like they have to sacrifice their own enjoyment just to make you feel happy, we're not into you because you cannot do the same for us.

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      Turd Ferguson 2 days ago

      Wow, sounds like you're really the lazy one. Men need to do this or that just to have the small chance that your entitled ass won't brush him aside once the next guy comes along. The problem with this type of article is that it passes blame on everyone else instead of examining the facts. Women did this by wanting all their entitlement and equality. They want everything, but don't like the outcome when true equality comes into play. How about you come pick me up, bring me a gift, buy me a drink, pay for my dinner, and then I can choose whether I want a second date with you? Now that probably sounds like a completely horrible date to you. And we as

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      Elaine Flowers 2 days ago from Dallas, Texas

      Thanks for the comment Turd,

      I don't have a problem doing any of those things but because I believe men should lead, I would not initiate any of that. Yes, Women's Liberation is apart of the issue here but I am no Women's Libber.

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      Jason 2 days ago

      Women are evil. If you get out and about, they absolutely will smear you. Many times I'm given evil eyes at random. I can be in a room with 50 girls, and they will make fun of you literally behind your back. They will slander my good name until it reaches other towns, and fuck, I'm in the safest, best town in the state. These things described are real occurrences and just the tip of the iceberg--and they do it to perfectly good, strong, and gl men, and for absolutely zero reasons. You, author, make a list like this without any examination. You want to push a button and expect a readout. I'm constantly attacked by women, they literally never leave me alone. If they aren't making faces, they are running their mouths, or purposefully ignoring while making a ruckus, or goading, and on and on. If you think there's something wrong with men and felt the need to make a list, girl, I couldn't, not ever remotely, relate to you in any way, shape, fashion, or form. You're as good as alien. Our perceptions and life experiences couldn't be further away. Approach? Approach who is there to fucking approach?

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